I heard a little rumour today

WOTDAH · 15-12-2009, 11:14 PM

I heard a little rumour today, Ford are close to pulling the pin on direct injection gas. For some reason, unknown to me, they are having trouble with the reliability of the motor.

gtfpv · 15-12-2009, 11:17 PM

and the 30% loss on economy.

Iggypoppin' · 15-12-2009, 11:18 PM

What's the source of this information??

WOTDAH · 15-12-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 76txcoupe

What's the source of this information??

Now telling you that would get me into trouble

vztrt · 15-12-2009, 11:46 PM

How credible is this? I hope its a just a bad rumour.

Paxton · 15-12-2009, 11:46 PM

It was never Direct Injection Gas. That would imply direct injection Petrol.

This is not what I'm hearing. I'm actually hearing that the project is going so well, that they're having to de-tune the engines so they don't embarrass the petrol variants.

**Polyal** · 15-12-2009, 11:50 PM

^^Yes I have heard the same as above. And 30% loss? Maybe in the 80's.

Iggypoppin' · 16-12-2009, 12:02 AM

Validation for the rumour is all I was after, otherwise it's just that; a rumour. No offense meant, of course, it's just we hear of so many rumours that turn out false, and these are usually because they where rubbish to begin with. Let's hope(not saying you're lieing!) that these rumours aren't true, as that wouldn't be too good for ford.

mik · 16-12-2009, 12:03 AM

the plot thickens :dr_Evil:

**Luke Plaizier** · 16-12-2009, 12:05 AM

I myself can't see the point of detuning to avoid embarrassing the petrol version. I'd see the point in re-tuning for better economy without loss of power though.

Having the Liquid LPG engine outperform the petrol engine would, in fact, be a bit of marketting genius. If successful, there could be good reason to consider LiLPG on the I6T.

Lukeyson

InfernoSR · 16-12-2009, 12:06 AM

Ah rumours... be careful... that alone ruined a relationship i had entered into...

WOTDAH · 16-12-2009, 12:29 AM

I heard this from several very credible sources. I find it hard to believe that it has to do with reliability but that was what I was told. I think there is more to the story (which I won't go into)

**Bluehoon** · 16-12-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

I heard this from several very credible sources. I find it hard to believe that it has to do with reliability but that was what I was told. I think there is more to the story (which I won't go into)

Perhaps said credible sources are peforming leak tests???

6 months to go, I would of thought the project would be done and dusted, cutting it awfully fine...

TC200six · 16-12-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfernoSR

Ah rumours... be careful... that alone ruined a relationship i had entered into...

Yeah, I know. I heard a rumor that Ford are developing a new Falcon hardtop with a supercharged V8. I won't hold my breath.

Jason[98.EL] · 16-12-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

This is not what I'm hearing. I'm actually hearing that the project is going so well, that they're having to de-tune the engines so they don't embarrass the petrol variants.

Same the Ford engineer that comes into my work ( part time job) is telling me the same thing

he also tells me that they are so impressed with it that it would be a huge seller to the fleet market ect

thats what ford au need to get back big time

Jason

Brazen · 16-12-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

I heard this from several very credible sources. I find it hard to believe that it has to do with reliability but that was what I was told. I think there is more to the story (which I won't go into)

This is a concern if its true especially if there is multiple sources. I think liquid injection LPG will be the next hit with the Falcon, it would be a real blow if the rumours are true.

It wouldnt surpise me if some of the big announcements to offset the demise of local Focus production get quietly culled, I have been very critical of current Ford AU management so I may be jumping to conclusions.

Speaking of LPG rumours, Holden is apparently releasing a LPG Cruze next year with the start of Australian production, the source of the rumour was some newspaper article in which an LPG industry spokesperson let it slip. LPG Cruzes are currently available in some european markets. First LPG small car in the country, should be interesting to see what happens.

phillyc · 16-12-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I myself can't see the point of detuning to avoid embarrassing the petrol version. I'd see the point in re-tuning for better economy without loss of power though.

Having the Liquid LPG engine outperform the petrol engine would, in fact, be a bit of marketting genius. If successful, there could be good reason to consider LiLPG on the I6T.

Lukeyson

Lukeyson, what your suggesting is essentially what Paxton is saying. De-tuning / re-tuning for say 200kw & 420Nm and reducing the consumption further still.

Mr Hardware · 16-12-2009, 09:30 PM

I've got big cojones so i'm gonna say this nay-sayer stuff is utter BS, the people with the positive info are right and we're gonna revisit this thread in 6 months time and laugh.

**Fordman1** · 16-12-2009, 09:35 PM

BS......

The new LIlLpg Engine will be a ripper !!

The only thing that is a concern is the Aussie new car buyers' lack of interest in LPG as an option.

Hopefully FoA will change that when they launch this motor.....

Gobes32 · 16-12-2009, 09:55 PM

Unfortunately guys, WOTDAH is a credible source and he has been proven correct more than once before. I am not saying that the rumor is true, rather just don't try and call BS just yet. I hope like hell that liquid injection goes ahead and I find it strange that there should be reliability problems because everyone knows that the I6 in e-gas form will happily run problem free due to hardened valves, pistons, etc. If anything, LI should be more reliable due to the non-existent chance of backfiring that gas cars are notorious for. I personally will be waiting for more info before commenting.

Also, there is a very high chance that the gas motor WOULD be more powerful than the petrol I6 due to the high octane rating of LPG and the fact that unlike a vapour based gas setup, LI does not have a wastage problem due to the computer only injecting what is needed into the motor.

Hally · 16-12-2009, 09:57 PM

Actually the first small car in Australia with a factory LPG option was a Datsun 200B in the late 70's.

Chilliman · 16-12-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

This is not what I'm hearing. I'm actually hearing that the project is going so well, that they're having to de-tune the engines so they don't embarrass the petrol variants.

This is also what I have heard.

WOTDAH · 16-12-2009, 10:40 PM

Yes project was going vey good, but, from what I understand they have hit a snag in the last week or so. Dont get me wrong guys I hope just as much as you that this is BS but the romour has come from seperate sources which is what is making me think twice. Lets just hope that Ford find a solution to the problem what ever it may be.

charles_wif_xf · 16-12-2009, 10:46 PM

Let's play devils advocate here and assume the rumour is true. What problems per se are they having, reliability issues with the engine itself or the gas setup?

Brute6 · 16-12-2009, 10:53 PM

If the figure that they have currently is 215kW.........What would you say.........???????? :voldar02:
They want to detune it, to bring the fuel consuption back, and performance/power back in line with petrol version.....

Falc'man · 16-12-2009, 11:17 PM

It can have great performance and poor reliability at the same time.

Windsor220 · 16-12-2009, 11:19 PM

It could just be a supplier/part issue. We all remember the turbo issues before FG release.

XR Martin · 16-12-2009, 11:33 PM

Higher octane yes, but it has less energy density. In theory, LPG cant have better economy than a petrol engine making the same power.

I think the biggest issue is the fuel tanks, not the injection system.
Wouldnt surprise me that it isnt meeting Ford's internal crash standards.

gtfpv · 16-12-2009, 11:34 PM

yes could be supplier issue .
in my opinion LSI, is very good for performance and power at the cost of economy. negating the whole purpose of a cheaper fuel . it's great if your emphasis is on performance and power , but that isn't what lpg buyers buy lpg for .
LPG is supposed to be a cheaper alternative .

**Elks** · 16-12-2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

This is not what I'm hearing. I'm actually hearing that the project is going so well, that they're having to de-tune the engines so they don't embarrass the petrol variants.

I've been doing a lot of work with LNG in trucks, our biggest hurdle has been to not make too much power. aka fuel management, we found it easy to turn a 500hp/1850 lb-ft engine into a 700hp 2250 lb-ft engine. But yes relaibilty was/is a problem.

Making HP on gas with high compression ratios is not to hard, as gas has a high octane to overcome the lower specific power output. if the engine is set up dedicated as with 12:1 compression easy to see where you could get either power or reliability concerns. That said quality compoentry can over come that. Afterall our trucks do over a million km with 18:1 pistons so now we are talking price.