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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 53
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We may be the last generation to view driving as a right just about all of us should enjoy.
Once self driving vehicles prove to be safer than regular cars laws will soon follow to make new drivers prove they are at least that safe. I think that eventually driving will require jet fighter style training before being allowed on the streets. I'm glad that I got the chance to drive dangerous machines pretty much where and how I want. I bet our grandkids will shake their heads at the craziness of it. Merry Xmas ![]() |
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#2 | ||
black xb
![]() Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,252
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my grandfather got to sit on top of a wild, very big beast and ride it. it could run, jump, snort and do all sort of horsey things.
I shake my head at the thought of that! my dangerous machine, which is powerful enough to go fast, has not tried to bite me, or step on my foot. I'm not sure which would work out cheaper to run? I think you are right, we may be the last generation to be able to manage our own transport, using our own skills (and brains) |
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#3 | ||
Wait, what?
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: South eastern melbourne
Posts: 2,677
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I think that until computers have instinct and can anticipate the way the human mind can, we are safe from that bleak outcome, until they create a car with AI we should be good and if Skynet is anything to go by, I hope they never do..
![]() One way around it would be if all the vehicles on the road were linked to the same operating system allowing all vehicles to know what every other vehicle on the road is doing, then having to factor in for the unpredictable ( wildlife, fallen trees, weather etc ) will be a problem. It will no doubt happen eventually but that will result in a complete halt in traffic infringements and until the government can work out how to replace such an easy way to raise massive amounts of revenue, not to mention the cost in implementing such a system or the cost to the user.. I can't see it happening anytime soon. I think for now, the odd 'self-drive' car here and there will just be a novelty. |
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#4 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 53
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Quote:
Elon Musk (Tesla founder) claims that autonomous systems are already provably safer than drivers. He thinks that they need to be statistically 200 times safer before regulators will approve them... but thinks that is only a year or two in the future technically. Convincing govt, and us, they really are safer seems to be the only real stumbling block even now today. If you have never listened to him talk about the future of cars it's worth some Youtube time. |
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#5 | |||
Boss 335
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,330
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#6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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G'day..I agree ..In 50 years a licence will be redundant as we know it today however I suspect governments will still find ways of stinging the operators or owners of predominantly autonomous vehicles and will still make them liable for mishaps..and there will be failures because it's near impossible to make a machine that can't fail..
Most of us will be pushing up daisies by then perhaps.. I reckon within the next 10 years we'll be seeing it start to happen . In another thread that i started a few months ago , the general consensus was that none of us wanted to hand total control to a machine..There really needs to be human involvement/over ride somehow.. Cheers Rod.. |
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#7 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 53
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I'm not sure I like the idea either. But I doubt a human over ride will be normal. More likely the reverse, where none is allowed I suspect. As the logic will be that it's safer to let the computer decide which vehicle should crash with the least danger to people in cases of problems.
I also think it's going to start really soon. Not 10 years. More like 2017 or 18 we see the arguments over laws begin. And it's one of those things that will change things really fast once here. Like the CD did. These truck based terror attacks will be a factor pushing it along faster too I think. |
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In Front of a Monitor
Posts: 1,645
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I would argue the last of the Enthusiasts drove the cars before Traction Control & ABS ect.
A lot of the cars on the road today are way more sedate than they would be otherwise if you took out all the driver assist stuff.
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2004 Mercury Silver Falcon XR6T - 5 Speed 2017 Platinum White Mustang GT - 6 Speed 2022 Blue Thai-Special for Daily Duties - Auto |
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#9 | ||
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
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Nothing of any significance will change in the next 50yrs. Untill we are about to run out of our tried & tested fuel sources, no government is going to make room for alternative sources and this all includes driverless aids & electric powered cars. We are a world obsessed with oil and have been since dawn of time. Why change anything when that might risk others getting in on the profits? That would be the intelligent thing to do.
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#10 | |||
Kicking back
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,567
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#11 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,645
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Quote:
Was down the beach on xmas eve and my youngest lad was mesmerised by the old school cruisers getting about with authentic V8 and associated soundtrack and he said how cool it would be to be able to own or even drive such vehicle, I told him it was as that's what we drove when I was first starting out. Before gizmo's were manufacturers key selling points and 5 star ANCAP's were the buzz words I would laugh at all the emphasis on owning a vehicle with 5 stars. When I got my licence i hoped the seatbelt in my TE Cortina would do the job if called upon and that the collapsible steering column would give in before my rib cage. Up to that point it was all throttle and brake modulation with a little steering input on my behalf, all from the edge of the seat to avoid the need to test said seatbelt. Now you just plant your foot and traction control prevents a burnout, DSC keeps it all neat and tidy and should you need to bail for some reason you just mash the brake peddle and ABS brings it all to a gentle halt saving you from the experience of Auto Zorbing, you know, that feeling of anything up to a dozen airbags leaving you a boy in a bubble. Ahh, the good old days... |
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#12 | |||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
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Quote:
The time of greatness has passed. We are in the twilight of it, we have these epic machines capable of so much, yet we are hamstrung by endless coddling. We are subjected to endless regulation and punishment in the name of safety. We are unable to appreciate the greatness of these marvels of engineering because of relentless interference from govco. Whilst the machines are spectacular, the environment to drive them in is rather beige...
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#13 | |||
irregular member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,457
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Quote:
Stuff that would make the papers these days.... |
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#14 | |||
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,530
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Quote:
Not everyone is good at learning car control no matter how well the car is or isn’t equipped with safety features. I can understand a car enthusiast sees them as an intrusion and takes away some of the learning aspect of car control as I feel the same but most people aren’t after the thrill of the drive, they just want to get there and with the increase in vehicles on the road it a good thing these systems now exist. Personally I’ve had a few times when driving my C63 in the wet that I’m pleased the computer has caught it quicker than I could have and I’ll also admit in the dry I like a bit more freedom to slide so I’m not a total wowser on the subject, I just believe the advance in these systems are safer for road users as a whole. Unfortunately the enthusiasts have to suffer for it or head for the track. |
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#15 | ||
RS The Faster Fords
![]() Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Westralia
Posts: 1,692
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All of these new gizmo's are a good for the new generation.
One thing they will never learn though is mechanical sympathy. We have a new machine at work with a 'smart' computer. It's designed to slow ground speed to compensate for extra load. I'd just self adjust with the throttle but more than one of the gen y's will just keep pushing to the point that the hydraulics are squealing or it will stall out... Why?... they're listening to tunes on their iphones and can't hear it... To me its one bit of technology compensating for the other. I always ask new operators not to listen to tunes for the first couple of weeks until they learn the machine but it's like a breach of their basic human rights and I'm the biggest nazi on earth. I need to adapt though, I've read the manual cover to cover now and learned the computer. I've have set it to come on automatically, it ***** me that I have to scroll through and turn it off every time I use it but for the welfare of the machine I'd rather that than the gen y's ruthlessly punishing it with no regard for mechanical sympathy
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Escort RS2000 Restored factory a/c and alloys. TD Cortina Unrestored 35 000km 6cyl manual. Mk1 GT Cortina Project. FG XR50 Daily. |
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#16 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,645
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Quote:
Having said that, my point was that the modern generation haven't had to comprehend what it is to have nothing else to rely on than their own instincts and ability to get themselves out of a tricky situation as we did back in the day. They take for granted the things that we had to master and have suffered from a lack of experiences because of that. One of my first cars was an LH Torana with foot activated park brake, the thrill of scaring the pants off my passengers when i'd swiftly apply it on a dirt road unexpectedly and then disengaging it with the hand operated dash mounted release mechanism so as to catch the slide is hard to comprehend never mind the thought of mastering when described to my 18yr old. Could you imagine a current or future vehicle with that type of system, or a foot operated high beam switch, or something with a cable operated clutch or manual steering that you had to put effort into. Designers have made it all so easy and convenient that they basically drive themselves without much thought. I guess I'm just lucky to have experienced both sides of the fence which is something very few of the current crop will ever do. Give me the good old days anytime. |
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#17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 888
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Quote:
My first new car in 1968 had 145bhp (108kw) and went like a scalded cat, and I never had a moments drama with it despite all the ‘tech’ that it didn’t have. My current car has 245kw, ABS and traction control only, the ABS has not been needed yet, and sometimes I turn off the traction control so I can have a smile. But it is not 250% quicker than the 1968 version. Some of the creature comforts I could not do without now are A/C, electric adjustable seats, electric windows, auto trans ...... stuff that I thought was BS, even in the 1980s. I have not had a manual gearbox car for 20 years, but I am still capable of getting a ‘V8Race’ joyride car out of pitlane without stalling it. TV advertising and marketing has a lot to answer for, as the current ‘active’ and ‘passive’ safety features can lead to less experienced drivers thinking that if something goes badly due to lack of talent or forethought, they will be ‘protected’ from the consequences, so there is no need to learn how to control a tonne or more of high speed metal. A driving enthusiast today is anyone who is capable of keeping their tyres inflated, knowing where the dipstick is, and performing a hill start with a clutch, manual gearbox and conventional hand brake. The rest are passengers in the drivers seat. |
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#18 | |||
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,530
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Quote:
My C63 has a foot parking brake and a release handle and all my children have experienced it plus I still have a couple of Toranas as well. Mercedes have only in the last few years done away with foot parking brakes and introduced electronic handbrakes with the current models. ![]() |
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#19 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 53
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Agree that the better driving aids become the 'worse' new drivers are going to be at old school control of cars.
Which means we need better and safer gizmos to keep up with the decline in skills. It's inevitable what will happen. Quote:
Back in the day there was a police radar car parked on it at least 2 or 3 times per month and as a bit of a hot foot teenager I pretty much never sped along it. These days with a speed camera halfway along I have not seen a radar there in a decade. But now days majority of traffic does 70 or more, then brake to under 60 for the speed camera and speed up again down the next hill. When busy it's actually more dangerous than it ever has been when a non local gets caught out by the late braking locals and speeding there is more regular than ever before I think. |
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#20 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,645
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#21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Tablelands. NSW
Posts: 894
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It could be argued that the 50s & 60s were great time to be a driving enthusiast, when you were free to modify your car any way you wanted, there were no ADRs, the roads were uncluttered, and there was no open road speed limit.
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Don't try and teach a pig to sing, it just wastes your time and annoys the pig.
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#22 | ||
Boss 335
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,330
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A Holden with a foot activated parking brake ? Which model do you speak of? The only cars I have the misfortune of driving with a foot brake is a dowdy Toyota Avalon and a boat of a 7 series. Even the EA and earlier umbrella handbrake is infinitely more user friendly and effective than that excuse of a thing ,
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#23 | |||
Kicking back
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,567
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#24 | ||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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Just a couple of thoughts. It happens sometimes.
The current fleet of cars will be here for many more years. Some diesel 4x4's could possibly still be around in 30 years?? Not un heard of. In fact there are still many 30 plus year old cars still in service. What will happen to govco coffers if auto drive cars become the norm. There will be a short fall of $$ that will have to picked up some other way. More tax. How will this affect 3rd party insurance providers? If a accident happens who will wear the blame? Who will sue who? If these vehicles are made mandatory would the Government accept being sued because it was their laws that forced people into a specific type of vehicle? To combat congestion will the government make it impossible to use your auto drive vehicle at certain times by disabling it? What will happen to motor cycles? What kind of person really wants the vehicle that they are in making all the decisions? Yeah, I know, they're out there. I really cant see auto drive vehicle making much head way any time soon. I might be wrong but I dont think so.
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Real Aussie muscle cars have a clutch!! http://www.roadsense.com.au/about.html |
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#25 | |||
Kicking back
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,567
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#26 | ||
RS The Faster Fords
![]() Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Westralia
Posts: 1,692
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Agreed we're along way off autonomous vehicles.
Interesting watching the auto drive bus test here in Perth. It still needs an attendant, four traffic controllers, a ute and sign board. The trees have been cut back from the side of the road by five metres and the kerbside parking stopped. For a bit of fun I've been driving right on the centre line, it'll freak out and stop itself, (works with traffic splitting motorbikes too, lol). It is learning though and has been playing chicken longer and longer but the human will always win...
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Escort RS2000 Restored factory a/c and alloys. TD Cortina Unrestored 35 000km 6cyl manual. Mk1 GT Cortina Project. FG XR50 Daily. |
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#27 | ||
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,530
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It's funny that autonomous vehicles are being discussed when Drive by Wire technology such as Steer by Wire and Brake by Wire terrifies most consumers because of the possibility they may fail along with their susceptibility to being hacked.
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#28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,325
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Quote:
Plus Australia is about 10 years behind the rest of the first world so I will start to become worried when self driving cars are the norm in Europe. |
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#29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Tablelands. NSW
Posts: 894
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Can't ever see self driving cars working out in the bush, how are they going to cope with potholes, narrow roads with a strip of bitumen just wide enough for one car, roos and wallabies that jump out at the last second, wombats, roads without shoulders, creek crossings, snow, endless road works, dirt roads, narrow blind corners, etc etc.
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Don't try and teach a pig to sing, it just wastes your time and annoys the pig.
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#30 | ||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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Umm, flightless autodrones will be usurped by Jetson type low flying family transportation drones mid to late this century. In the meanwhile, these segways on steroids will become mainstream in the next 20 years, petrol powered cars will be legislated out of existence by the vested lobby dollars. Sound familiar...Shoe on the other foot?
Oh sorry, had a bad dream ^^^ last night lol!!! cheers, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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