Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21-02-2020, 12:25 PM   #31
Raptor
^^^^^^^^
Donating Member2
 
Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: online - duh
Posts: 9,628
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: For quietly going about moderating in a fair and even manner. 
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Article from https://theconversation.com/au


Holden was never really Australian





.
__________________
.
'93 XG Falcon Ute( sold ) : '94 ED Falcon Classic ( sold ) : '04 Territory SX TS ( sold ) : '04 Falcon RTV BAII ute (still in the family)

Last edited by Raptor; 21-02-2020 at 12:30 PM.
Raptor is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 21-02-2020, 07:15 PM   #32
FormulaFG
Lurking......
Donating Member1
 
FormulaFG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 453
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Unfortunately Australia never owned its auto industry.

All the manufacturers here were foreign owned. It makes complete sense that they would look after jobs in their respective motherlands before looking after our jobs, and why good ideas and products we came up with here were never given proper traction and funding for export.

I've often thought Holden's birth doomed it from the start. The idea behind Holden was 100% correct, but the federal government should have set up an Australian manufacturer from scratch. It should have been made very clear to GM or any other manufacturer if they wanted to be involved they would be paid for their help but would NOT have any ownership of the business.

Had this happened it would have stayed in Australian hands. Would have been able to sell cars to any country in the world that wanted to buy them, without having to get "permission" from another country and we may still have a productive auto industry today.
FormulaFG is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-02-2020, 08:28 PM   #33
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 48,238
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Given the USD at the moment we're Pacific Mexicans again, surely with a few billion on the table we could attract someone like Tesla to come here.

Or try create a culture internally - the problem with manufacturing is it's ridiculous on capital.
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 21-02-2020, 08:53 PM   #34
roddy1960
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
roddy1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

About 34 years ago this was aired if my maths is correct ....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOCILCfDo5A...
roddy1960 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
6 users like this post:
Old 21-02-2020, 09:30 PM   #35
MITCHAY
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,297
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

We will never know but I reckon both Ford and Holden were capable of building a small, midsize or SUV volume seller. Think about what people are paying for some of the Euro, Korean and Japanese imports loaded up with the fruit these days.

A lot of factors played apart but there were the blockers and bad management. Detroit just didn't get it.

I have read GM wanted to wind up Holden at the same time they did Pontiac. It was surprising that Holden even made it past the GFC. They just could not understand.
MITCHAY is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-02-2020, 10:04 PM   #36
Sprintey
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Sprintey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,354
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy1960 View Post
About 34 years ago this was aired if my maths is correct ....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOCILCfDo5A...
Wow the Tarrant, Australia's Own!

Roddy, thanks for that, it's a fascinating doco. I keep seeing the theme repeated that Australia is different, and that both the Chamberlain brothers and GMH of the 30's adapted to a style of multiple small runs of parts for the demands of this country. GHM under Hartnett took it further, in 1935 they were building 93 different body styles in one factory and ingeniously made them based on a common set of panels!

Note also Bob Chamberlain saying it was Scullin's tarrifs that allowed them to sell pistons profitably, and this became lots and lots of products, including legendary tractors like the 9G that they still take on Tractor Treks from Steep Point to Cape Byron.

Also echoed back then is execs from the UK or US as a rule can't understand how we do it here (the exceptions are the people we remember fondly).

So if there is ever an Aussie Industry / Aussie Auto company again, it's going to have to be different to everyone else. Different and ingenious.
__________________
I6 + AWD

Last edited by Sprintey; 21-02-2020 at 10:23 PM.
Sprintey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-02-2020, 10:39 PM   #37
Sprintey
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Sprintey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,354
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Great quote from that film:

"This was a major breakthrough in the world, in body building. Clearly the Americans couldn't understand because the way they made a car is - take a Chevrolet, I mean, they set up a tooling for a Chevrolet and they make so many Chevs. You know. Till they amortise the tooling, and it might go for a couple of years. But nevertheless, they have to do an enormous quantity. Clearly this couldn't work in Australia. We were making a broad spectrum of cars, in small, flexible quantities by this technique of using - virtually - the one set of dies. From start to finish, all we got, was a drawing of a chassis, and that's all we got. And the cars were made, the bodies were built, and they were put end on end, and they waited for the chassis' to come out, and when the chassis' came out they were flopped on them, screwed down and sold to the public. Highly flexible, highly skilled, and much cheaper than General Motors America could produce them for."

-Don Jordan, GMH Designer.

Having to do an enormous quantity/not enough scale - where else have I heard that on these forums! The Australian way will be different, it has to be! Smaller, more flexible, cheaper.
__________________
I6 + AWD
Sprintey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 21-02-2020, 10:45 PM   #38
GasoLane
Former BTIKD
Donating Member2
 
GasoLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,233
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaFG View Post
Unfortunately Australia never owned its auto industry.

All the manufacturers here were foreign owned.
Oh how quickly we forget the Lightburn Zeta

So many here talking of cars being only being whitegoods these days. Back in the 60's an Australian whitegoods manufacturer made cars.
__________________
Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
GasoLane is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-02-2020, 11:28 PM   #39
hayseed
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,895
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GasoLane View Post
Oh how quickly we forget the Lightburn Zeta

So many here talking of cars being only being whitegoods these days. Back in the 60's an Australian whitegoods manufacturer made cars.
I've Never seen a White Cement Mixer.........
hayseed is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-02-2020, 10:08 AM   #40
mick taylor
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 978
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaFG View Post
Unfortunately Australia never owned its auto industry.

All the manufacturers here were foreign owned. It makes complete sense that they would look after jobs in their respective motherlands before looking after our jobs, and why good ideas and products we came up with here were never given proper traction and funding for export.

I've often thought Holden's birth doomed it from the start. The idea behind Holden was 100% correct, but the federal government should have set up an Australian manufacturer from scratch. It should have been made very clear to GM or any other manufacturer if they wanted to be involved they would be paid for their help but would NOT have any ownership of the business.

Had this happened it would have stayed in Australian hands. Would have been able to sell cars to any country in the world that wanted to buy them, without having to get "permission" from another country and we may still have a productive auto industry today.
That sounds good but such a car would be just backwards crap like the Russians made, the Yanks were so far advanced in making cars and we got a most advanced car in it's day when we got the 1949 FX Holden.
Look at our first Falcon XK in 1961 as well, it was so advanced in it's day as well.
Look at the 1962 RV1 Valiant as well, that made the Holden and Ford look like crap in it's day.

If you look at Aussie cars that we made they were siting on their **** some what and when the Jap imports came about they had to lift their game to keep up, thanks that we could use the UK Ford escort or Cortina or the Gemni etc etc. it cost X $ to bring out a new car and around 2 years to make just that money back then you make some profit and then you have to spend $ on the next model and on it goes. look at South America Fords they could not afford to up date there cars so they were stuck with the XK Falcon body style being made from 1960's to 1982.

Look at our Ford F100's they did not bring out the C20 Chevy to go head to head, Chev failed at that attempt so how could we make such to deal with such a thing.

When we look at engines even Holden were backwards from 1976 struggling to make way with what they had making small advancement at that let along build any engine from scratch, hell even the Japs engines were first made by CWC in the USA as they build all the castings and kick off the very starting process and then had that over to the Japs to start building them from their on, our first FX Holden's were cast with CWC and then later with GMH. Australia could never build an engine block form the start not even our Holden V8 was totally Australian and our Ford X Flow was done by the help of the Yanks who came here, same with the Ford OHC 6 CYL.
mick taylor is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-02-2020, 11:34 AM   #41
roKWiz
Cabover nut
 
roKWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,575
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mick taylor View Post
Look at our Ford F100's they did not bring out the C20 Chevy to go head to head, Chev failed at that attempt so how could we make such to deal with such a thing.
.
Mick, Holden did sell C20's (and bigger) from the dealer competing with the F series.
My ol man bought a new C60 luton peak furniture pan (292 blue flame straight 6) back when I got this price list.

__________________
heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration
In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752

roKWiz is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-02-2020, 01:58 PM   #42
roddy1960
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
roddy1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintey View Post
Wow the Tarrant, Australia's Own!

Roddy, thanks for that, it's a fascinating doco. I keep seeing the theme repeated that Australia is different, and that both the Chamberlain brothers and GMH of the 30's adapted to a style of multiple small runs of parts for the demands of this country. GHM under Hartnett took it further, in 1935 they were building 93 different body styles in one factory and ingeniously made them based on a common set of panels!

Note also Bob Chamberlain saying it was Scullin's tarrifs that allowed them to sell pistons profitably, and this became lots and lots of products, including legendary tractors like the 9G that they still take on Tractor Treks from Steep Point to Cape Byron.

Also echoed back then is execs from the UK or US as a rule can't understand how we do it here (the exceptions are the people we remember fondly).

So if there is ever an Aussie Industry / Aussie Auto company again, it's going to have to be different to everyone else. Different and ingenious.
yep . thought the same....you're right . won't happen of course but I often wonder if the talented crews from both Ford and Holden that do know a bit about this country could design and manufacture a truly Australia's Own from the ground up if they got together with a few bob from some enterprising mobs not least the government...Even if it began as a cottage industry a bit like Koenesigg in Denmark or something eh ....Big brother overseas involvement not needed or wanted ...
roddy1960 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-02-2020, 10:33 AM   #43
mick taylor
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 978
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roKWiz View Post
Mick, Holden did sell C20's (and bigger) from the dealer competing with the F series.
My ol man bought a new C60 luton peak furniture pan (292 blue flame straight 6) back when I got this price list.

image
Yes I do know they did, old mans mate had a 4x4 K20 I think it was called and it had the big 292 6 in it, they were not called a blue flame 6, as they were what looked like a big block Holden grey motor.

I remember traveling up north going through past Bundy to rocky to do a job and the old man had a gut full and pulled up in his 1976 Ford F100 with a 250 6 cyl in it and asked what the hell did old mate think he was doing plodding along so far back and old mate said that he was flat out going up them hills and all, he bought that Chev K20 new and only had it for a year, he did not like it because it was so gutless.

Them Chevys did not sell well at all in Australia I think it was about 1978 that they came out and the 1978 to 1980 F100 was the best looking F100 of all by far and we got the 5.8L V8 as well then.

I remember sitting in that K20 Chev when I first seen it and thought the dash and all was nice.
mick taylor is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 23-02-2020, 12:22 PM   #44
roKWiz
Cabover nut
 
roKWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,575
Default Re: What happened to Australia's car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mick taylor View Post
Yes I do know they did, old mans mate had a 4x4 K20 I think it was called and it had the big 292 6 in it, they were not called a blue flame 6, as they were what looked like a big block Holden grey motor.

Them Chevys did not sell well at all in Australia I think it was about 1978 that they came out and the 1978 to 1980 F100 was the best looking F100 of all by far and we got the 5.8L V8 as well then.

I remember sitting in that K20 Chev when I first seen it and thought the dash and all was nice.
That HX price list is dated 1976 when we bought the big C60 blue flame six (even painted Chevy blue) powered pantec, as a kid I remember the dealer giving me heaps of brochures, the price list and this rare book, "The Holden Story"
On the same day he took delivery of a new turquoise coloured HX Kingswood wagon.

I remember the engine looked just like a huge version of the HX's 202 red.

__________________
heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration
In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752

roKWiz is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL