February 2018 VFACTS: Honda booms as Holden slumps - Page 3

arronm · 09-03-2018, 12:59 AM

Just looked at the new commodore. Dickheads forgot the boot...........

arronm · 09-03-2018, 01:05 AM

Kids reaction after the parents told them they bought a hatchback commodore.

mr smith · 09-03-2018, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Rubbish bias statement.

The new Mondeo is a really good car with lots of tech.

Most buyers would say it is a lot better than Falcon ever was (but this thread is about Feb VFacts).

Um no..my wife hated it and a friend currently has one as a work car and totally dislikes it as well. Sales prove my point,
Here is a news flash, most new car buyers dont like this “tech”.
My Mondeo was a Titanium and it had that much crap in (most didnt work properly, auto dip headlights for one) that it was a total distraction.

OzJavelin · 09-03-2018, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

But that's not to say that the new 'Commodore' will be a bad car. For the vast majority of buyers who don't buy these cars for its V8 engine or performance offerings, the new 'Commodore' would suit their needs just fine.

.. however .. they'll likely look at a Korean for price/features .. or just stop thinking about it and buy a Toyota like everyone else.

Nothing at Holden to differentiate them from all the rest anymore.

mike_nofx · 09-03-2018, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Iam an aussie bloke. So I care about aussie cars. BUT take a good look at the population. Thats why they can sell any old crap...

Agree. Women stopped giving birth to men around 30 years ago. Now they either have girls or girly boys haha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

But is the Mondeo being marketed by Ford Aust. as a Falcon replacement ?

I don't think that Ford really market the Mondeo at all.

If Ford didn't have the Ranger, how would they be going right now ?
'
Dr Terry

I wish they didn’t have the Ranger, then we could watch Holden and Ford both die in Australia.

People bought the Ranger as an alternative to the Hilux, because a 3T Ute was require to retrieve the kids from school and buy the weekly groceries. It was unique to own a Ranger, now every second soccer mum owns one.

**Fordman1** · 09-03-2018, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr smith

Um no..my wife hated it and a friend currently has one as a work car and totally dislikes it as well. Sales prove my point,
Here is a news flash, most new car buyers dont like this “tech”.
My Mondeo was a Titanium and it had that much crap in (most didnt work properly, auto dip headlights for one) that it was a total distraction.

Funny, my sample size is bigger than yours and the opinions are opposite

prydey · 09-03-2018, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

People bought the Ranger as an alternative to the Hilux, because a 3T Ute was require to retrieve the kids from school and buy the weekly groceries. It was unique to own a Ranger, now every second soccer mum owns one.

yes, how dare people buy cars that they prefer. They should buy cars that other people think they should drive instead

prydey · 09-03-2018, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovford

Big egos driving big trucks, and not using them for there intended purpose.

i take it you have surveyed all these people to establish they are 'big ego's' and 'not using them for their intended purpose'??

i also assume when you say 'trucks' you are talking about utes?

Wretched · 09-03-2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, how dare people buy cars that they prefer. They should buy cars that other people think they should drive instead

of course, the Falcon did it all

mike_nofx · 09-03-2018, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, how dare people buy cars that they prefer. They should buy cars that other people think they should drive instead

Yes people have the right to buy any car they prefer. Even if they prefer to buy a car which is terrible for the intended usage, just to keep up with the Joneses.

Just as I have the right to insult these people for being stupid.

prydey · 09-03-2018, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Yes people have the right to buy any car they prefer. Even if they prefer to buy a car which is terrible for the intended usage, just to keep up with the Joneses.

Just as I have the right to insult these people for being stupid.

So if I enjoy camping and going to remote places, and buy a car that can do that, I should buy a second car to do anything else, even though the first car is more than capable of serving multiple purposes.

Just because you don't agree doesn't make it stupid.

whales · 09-03-2018, 03:16 PM

I think the new Commodore will sell like hotcakes.
The only thing that is going to let it down is having to use premium unleaded petrol specially when at it's peak price

mike_nofx · 09-03-2018, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

So if I enjoy camping and going to remote places, and buy a car that can do that, I should buy a second car to do anything else, even though the first car is more than capable of serving multiple purposes.

Just because you don't agree doesn't make it stupid.

Well then obviously it’s being used for it’s intended purpose and my comment does not apply to those people.

My comment is directed at the other 90% of buyers who have a diesel 4x4 Ute, in other words - a vehicle with diesel for torque to tow, 4x4 for off-road ability and a Ute for load carrying. Yet don’t tow, go off-road or carry a load more than grocery bags. This is the 90% I’m referring to.

I believe Ford acknowledges this 90% and so releases things like a 2.0L ‘Truck’.

**Fordman1** · 09-03-2018, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

I believe Ford acknowledges this 90% and so releases things like a 2.0L ‘Truck’ that is more powerful and has more torque than the existing diesel

Corrected for accuracy.

**russellw** · 09-03-2018, 04:22 PM

The Graphical Stats for February have now been uploaded to the Tech Portal.

Cheers
Russ

Adamz Ghia · 09-03-2018, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Well then obviously it’s being used for it’s intended purpose and my comment does not apply to those people.

My comment is directed at the other 90% of buyers who have a diesel 4x4 Ute, in other words - a vehicle with diesel for torque to tow, 4x4 for off-road ability and a Ute for load carrying. Yet don’t tow, go off-road or carry a load more than grocery bags. This is the 90% I’m referring to.

I believe Ford acknowledges this 90% and so releases things like a 2.0L ‘Truck’.

Maybe those people just like utes? Maybe the guy that bought it has always wanted a ute and bought one because he simply wanted one?

Bossxr8 · 09-03-2018, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Holden and Toyota had no choice after Ford refused to take the federal governments offer.
The parts suppliers couldn't continue with only 2 manufacturers to supply.

Rubbish. Holden and Toyota had no problem continuing on as the sole 2 manufacturers. It was only after Holden left that Toyota declared they could not continue as the sole manufacturer due to the suppliers not having enough volume.

Holden had no issue continuing on if the government was going to gaurantee future funding. That all lead to the infamous Joe Hockey, if you don't like it bugger off goading in parliment

. Bastards.

BENT_8 · 09-03-2018, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Rubbish. Holden and Toyota had no problem continuing on as the sole 2 manufacturers. It was only after Holden left that Toyota declared they could not continue as the sole manufacturer due to the suppliers not having enough volume.

Holden had no issue continuing on if the government was going to gaurantee future funding. That all lead to the infamous Joe Hockey, if you don't like it bugger off goading in parliment

. Bastards.

Splitting hairs, i was delivering parts for numerous supply chain companies and remember the sentiment well after Ford pulled the pin, they knew it was only a matter of time and before long our own contract numbers began to decline.

Regardless, it was Fords refusal to accept the Federal Governments money that got the ball rolling for the decline of Australian auto manufacturing.
Not that i blame Ford alone, not much point building a car that stupid Aussies turned their backs on for imported crap.

burnz · 09-03-2018, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Splitting hairs, i was delivering parts for numerous supply chain companies and remember the sentiment well after Ford pulled the pin, they knew it was only a matter of time and before long our own contract numbers began to decline.

Regardless, it was Fords refusal to accept the Federal Governments money that got the ball rolling for the decline of Australian auto manufacturing.
Not that i blame Ford alone, not much point building a car that stupid Aussies turned their backs on for imported crap.

and now the imported cars are dearer or less specked, RE the commodore,
base model 4 pot front drive vs 6 pot rear drive. similar price..

mike_nofx · 09-03-2018, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Maybe those people just like utes? Maybe the guy that bought it has always wanted a ute and bought one because he simply wanted one?

Yes true, people can do what they want. Just like if someone wants to eat soup with a fork, go for it! Not really it’s intended purpose, but struggle along a bit and it’ll eventually get the job done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Corrected for accuracy.

Because squeezing more power out of a small 2.0 motor and making it run at peak output is exactly what you want in a truck with 3.5t tow capacity.
Though I suppose long term durability isn’t an issue with modern disposable cars.

prydey · 09-03-2018, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Splitting hairs, i was delivering parts for numerous supply chain companies and remember the sentiment well after Ford pulled the pin, they knew it was only a matter of time and before long our own contract numbers began to decline.

Regardless, it was Fords refusal to accept the Federal Governments money that got the ball rolling for the decline of Australian auto manufacturing.
Not that i blame Ford alone, not much point building a car that stupid Aussies turned their backs on for imported crap.

It wouldn't have mattered if falcon and territory were the top selling cars in Australia. There still wouldn't be enough volume to make the factories viable. An export program wasn't feasible when cheaper countries make the same cars for less, or if the exchange rate makes it non profitable.

We can all play the blame game but the Australian market is too flooded for choice for manufacturing to be done in any sort of viable volume.

At the end of the day, nearly every other manufacturing country is subsidised by their government. Social media in Australia gives too many minority groups a voice and the stupid government listens to it.

Mercury Bullet · 09-03-2018, 07:28 PM

Was next door to a Holden dealer yesterday...crickets.

Don't play "fish" against a Holden salesman, they are getting very good at it.

Kieron · 09-03-2018, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Rubbish. Holden and Toyota had no problem continuing on as the sole 2 manufacturers. It was only after Holden left that Toyota declared they could not continue as the sole manufacturer due to the suppliers not having enough volume.

Holden had no issue continuing on if the government was going to gaurantee future funding. That all lead to the infamous Joe Hockey, if you don't like it bugger off goading in parliment

. Bastards.

Spot on mate. It wasn't Ford refusing Govt funding neither. As we all know, Ford (and GM, Chrysler) were in serious trouble, Ford back in 2008 made the decision to move to the 'One Ford' philosophy, this killed the Falcon and hence Aussie Ford manufacturing.

@burnz, what's less specced with the ZB vs the VF? isn't the new 4 potter more powerful than the old base engine? 9spd auto vs old 6spd auto?

XRtowcar · 09-03-2018, 08:16 PM

@burnz, what's less specced with the ZB vs the VF? isn't the new 4 potter more powerful than the old base engine? 9spd auto vs old 6spd auto?

They got rid of the tailshaft and diff.

BENT_8 · 09-03-2018, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

It wouldn't have mattered if falcon and territory were the top selling cars in Australia. There still wouldn't be enough volume to make the factories viable. An export program wasn't feasible when cheaper countries make the same cars for less, or if the exchange rate makes it non profitable.

We can all play the blame game but the Australian market is too flooded for choice for manufacturing to be done in any sort of viable volume.

At the end of the day, nearly every other manufacturing country is subsidised by their government. Social media in Australia gives too many minority groups a voice and the stupid government listens to it.

Yes, theres probably plenty of factors behind the decisions to fold, but those decisions weren't being made when Elizabeth was churning out 100,000 VT's a year.
There may be more choice, but who's making those choices?

jpd80 · 09-03-2018, 08:40 PM

Fiesta...........68
Focus..........516
Mondeo.......196
Ecosport.......68
Escape........471
Everest.......475

Ranger....3,544 (4x2: 442 4x4: 3,094)
Mustang.....492 (That must be 16,000 sold in Australia since Jan 2016)

While there may be no direct replacement for Falcon, combined sales of
Ranger + Everest + Mustang was just short of the whole of Holden last month.

**Fordman1** · 09-03-2018, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Fiesta...........68
Focus..........516
Mondeo.......196
Ecosport.......68
Escape........471
Everest.......475

Ranger....3,544 (4x2: 442 4x4: 3,094)
Mustang.....492 (That must be 16,000 sold in Australia since Jan 2016)

I think Fiesta is a gonna.

jpd80 · 09-03-2018, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordman1

I think Fiesta is a gonna.

Just import the cars people want, Fiesta ST and maybe the new Fiesta Active Crossover and Skip Ecosport?

Ecosport is just friggin' bad, it's no match for something like CX-3 (<= Fiesta Active ).

NX74205 · 09-03-2018, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

Ford back in 2008 made the decision to move to the 'One Ford' philosophy, this killed the Falcon and hence Aussie Ford manufacturing.

Or could it simply be that Falcon was behind the times, and the world has moved on?

No, it can't be, Falcon was the best car ever ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordman1

I think Fiesta is a gonna.

They need to bring the new model here yesterday.

prydey · 09-03-2018, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yes, theres probably plenty of factors behind the decisions to fold, but those decisions weren't being made when Elizabeth was churning out 100,000 VT's a year.
There may be more choice, but who's making those choices?

Reduction in import tariffs would no doubt have played a part in that. Fast forward to now and we have over 60 brands in Australia.
I don't begrudge people choosing to buy a non local product though.

Another problem with Ford and Holden was the fact they were building orphan cars. You can't expect the parent companies to keep tipping money in for products only built for one country. Return on investment just takes too long and needs too much volume. If it was like Camry, and just locally assembling a global car, then the factories would possibly still be running.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge now.