Tyres cause flaring of front wheel arches

[peterljohnson55]

G'day all,

Car: Ford Fairmont Ghia AUII Tickford VCT.

I have had this persistent problem with the tyres, 215/60R, flaring the front wheel arches, both sides. The problem was evident when I bought the car 2nd hand nearly 4 years ago. It has happened with different brand tyres.

In the photo you will notice the cut line/s on top of the tyre just near the corner, and down the face. This occurs in many places. I have attempted to mark the cut like with some (faint) arrows.

As I am due for new front tyres soon, I am interested to know what may be causing this problem and how to avoid it happening again - Any ideas?

Perhaps I am up for new Monroe GT Gas Struts (35-0447) as well as the tyres. If new struts, do I need the Monroe strut mates (SM001+) as well?
Can gas struts be repaired/regassed insitu?

Also, could raising the car at front, 10-20 mm, solve the problem? If so, how?

Thanks from a total novice.

[EBW-302]

Im not sure what the issue is, but getting the guards rolled will definately stop it happening again.
What area are you in? If in Melbourne, I do guard rolling. Info is in my signiture.

[Sox]

The guards need rolling, and you also may have too much positive camber.

[GK]

I had this problem with Series 1 Tickford 17s on my wagon, but not Series 2-3Tickford rims.

The front was lowered to a little below standard XR height on Pedders springs.

I got sick of the guards getting caught so JC and I fitted some different springs to raise the height back to XR(ish) spec.

Never had a problem again.

Hope you get yours sorted okay.

GK

[peterljohnson55]

Hi GK, do you have a spec for those springs you fitted?

[naddis01]

The way I see it is there must be an issue with your suspension. Judging by the gap between the tyre and the arch as it sits it is not lowered. Is this correct? I also assume 215/60/16 is the standard tyre size? If the answer is yes to both of those then I suggest a suspension issue because it should not be hitting if everything is stock.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by naddis01

The way I see it is there must be an issue with your suspension. Judging by the gap between the tyre and the arch as it sits it is not lowered. Is this correct? I also assume 215/60/16 is the standard tyre size? If the answer is yes to both of those then I suggest a suspension issue because it should not be hitting if everything is stock.

Id agree there... what sorts of roads are you driving on? Are you bottoming out somewhere? Full or nearly full suspension travel like that means your either driving too fast on really crappy roads (all things being equal with camber etc)... or your suspension is pretty stuffed... or both.
Shouldnt be happening at all.

[TheInterceptor]

I thought this was faaaairly standard? Seen many an A series with the guard " flared" . Even our old family AUII had that on the pass side. My wagon has the guard lips a tiny bit rolled to stop the guard being flared out if the tyre contacts it. Done by an owner of the past. Mine hasnt contacted the guards though so its all good here

With our old wagon it happened when coming off a main road up a driveway, to a shop or something. Compresses the suspension enough to nick the guard.

On my wagon. The shocks are stuffed but everything else is well n good! No issues at all.

[MGGT RAA]

^^ shouldnt be... the only time mines done that was with Sl's and 20's on the front in full lock.

[Sox]

I really doubt there's anything wrong with the suspension as such.
Some AU's do it, some don't. I've had 4 that did it.
Not all tyres are equal, even though they might be the same size, they can have different shoulder angles, etc.
As I also said in my post above, the camber would be a long way out, that is, too positive.

All you need to do is roll the lip.
You could also do a quick and dirty check of the camber by eyeballing how many shims are behind the upper control arm mounts, and/or placing a spirit level on the wheel. The top of the wheel should be leaning inwards by a small amount to have negative camber. Yours may be straight up and down, or perhaps even slightly positive (leaning outwards).

[EBW-302]

Yeah, Ive rolled guards on standard height cars with standard wheels. Just depends where the wheel is when it hits a bump, or goes up a driveway, etc.

Falcons are pretty prone to doing front guards.

Ill probably get in trouble, but I charge $70 for the pair of fronts to be rolled, which is cheaper than buying new springs and having them changed over, and can be done in half hour.

[auIILTD]

Yes EBW. Bad boy!

Please take these type of comments to PM in the future.

Stu

[svo supporter]

Are you sure you have the correct offset wheels? Even lowering them shouldn't present the problem you describe

[XRGhia]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Are you sure you have the correct offset wheels? Even lowering them shouldn't present the problem you describe

LOL! I had my guards catch on the tires after being lowered on SSL's even with 1.5 degrees of camber on each side. Now I've got XR height springs, and it still does it going around a corner and up driveways.

Edit: the AU Fairlane also does the same, on standard height suspension with no negative or positive camber.

[rowan194]

That happened to mine when I hit a wombat. Course the wheel arch cover being ripped out at speed probably contributed to the flaring.

[peterljohnson55]

Thanks everyone for your input, believe me it is very much appreciated.

I am still working on the problem with your comments in my mind (thankfully) as I get a few mechanics to have a look and see and offer their opinion. Needless to say, opinions so far have varied from suspension is stuffed to suspension if OK.

*** I cant tell if the suspension has been lowered. It appears the shock absorbers are after-market, and I dont know if springs are also.
*** The suspension is tight and firm, with no apparent looseness or damage.
*** Tyres are standard 215/60/16.

Q: Also, any way of determining if the springs are standard by counting the rings? How many rings are standard?
Q: Anyone hazzard a guess as to the brand of bottle-green shocks? No labelling seen.

I will get back here hopefully within next week or so with my plan.

[Ride]

Even though the suspension may be the cause, I'd get the guards rolled regardless to save the pain of it happening again

[peterljohnson55]

I agree, Ride, that's a must. HAve been quote $65 side.
I am even thinking of pumping, too, if that adds another centimetre or so.

[EBW-302]

Pwhoaa! Im not charging enough. If youre in Melb, PM me

[falconnut]

Grr this has started happening to me too.

Anyone do this locally around 2450?

[robbyj]

Only time this happened to me was with SL's and 20's. Hit the flared bits back up with a hammer, short term fix.

[peterljohnson55]

UPDATE - ALL REPAIRED

Got it done simple enough with a little help from a friend and at not cost.
Here is what we did ...

Tools:
- PIPE: 40 to 50 mm, about 600 mm long.
- FILE: long, with wooden or plastic handle.
- PLASTIC AND RUBBER HEAD HAMMER: (such as seen on ebay for less that $20).
- DOLLY: like this one here, or similar hunk of steel (http://image.carcraft.com/f/9018851/..._and_dolly.jpg)
- RAG: to wrap the dolly.
- CAR JACK:

1) I first made sure any downturned lip was angled back in toward the tyre. The lip had come so far out it was beyond the bodywork (see pic at top of this thread). I used the handle of a file to push it back somewhat.
2) progressively and carefully levered the turned-down lip back into approximate position by pivoting pipe off the top of the tyre. I had to place pack/s onto the top of the tyre to raise the fulcrum point higher to get the pipe working at the correct angle otherwise it wanted to push the lip in wrong direction.
3) Repeated #2 around the lip until it was all back in near-square position to the body.
4) Jacked car and removed wheel.
5) Using hammer, carefully hit the lip so it points higher up, with the dolly wrapped in rag on the outside of the guard to resist hammering and stop the arch from springing out.
6) I also used the file to force the lip higher up and under. It allowed a good amount of force to be applied vertically upward, by hand.

Next thing is the suspension... next post.

Thanks to everyone. Your input has been really helpful.

[peterljohnson55]

UPDATE - STRUTS

Despite being previously advised that the struts were aftermarket, a mechanic found both front Monroes and rear (IRS) are original with car manufacture.

So, the struts at 12 years old are stuffed.

Have been quoted the following to do both sides...
$475 Ultratune (KYB or BORG). Warranty? (havent asked yet).
$498 O'Neills Warranty? (havent asked yet).
$579 (a) KMART Auto. 2 year warranty on parts, lifetime on labour.
$475 (b) KMART Auto. 2 year warranty on parts, lifetime on labour, to match Ultratune.
$513 (a) JAX Tyres. (Monroe, 35-0447). Warranty? (havent asked yet).
$475 (b) JAX Tyres. (Monroe, 35-0447). Warranty? (havent asked yet), to match Ultratune.

Quoted $70 each for Monroe Strut Mates, by JAX.

Question: Are Strut Mates entirely necessary?

Happy to receive your opinions on above.

With thanks.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by peterljohnson55

Quoted $70 each for Monroe Strut Mates, by JAX.

Question: Are Strut Mates entirely necessary?

Happy to receive your opinions on above.

With thanks.

If you're origional ones are split, I would recommend getting new ones....if they're not split, keep the originals and save a few bucks.

[EBW-302]

Im hoping youre still getting the guards rolled. Nothing worse than having to fix a guard thats been popped out. Paint cracking is highly likely once its been bent.

Prevent them being wrecked, costs the same no matter what.