Ford hunts new gears after supplier failure

[Sprint XR8]

E-Gas Falcon may get upgraded auto as Albury tranmission plant goes under

By IAN PORTER 17 February 2009
FORD Australia is working feverishly on a solution after supplies of its four-speed automatic transmission were abruptly cut off on Monday.

Albury-based Drivetrain Systems International (DSI) stopped production after it was placed in administration and receivership.

DSI ran into trouble after its major customer, SsangYong, narrowly avoided bankruptcy in January by being granted protection from its creditors by a South Korean court.

SsangYong has lost money in each of the past four quarters as sales of its sport utility vehicles fell sharply in response to fuel prices and, later, the global financial crisis.

Ford uses the four-speed unit in about 30 per cent of all Falcons, mainly the E-gas LPG model and the Falcon wagon. It is also used in the rear-wheel-drive Territory.

“We have the five-speed and the six-speed transmissions in our other vehicles, so we are looking at potentially changing the specs to use those transmissions,’’ said Ford spokeswoman Sinead McAlary.

The six-speed comes from ZF and is found in a range of other high-powered cars including several BMWs and the Jaguar XF. The five-speed unit comes from Ford’s Bordeaux plant in France.

Both transmissions are imported and, with the Australian dollar at relatively low levels, either choice would make for a more expensive Falcon.

“We don’t want to go down a more expensive route,” Ms McAlary said, “but the most expensive option would be to close the plant.”

“We will do what we have to do.”

A switch to a five or six-speed transmission for the E-gas Falcons would likely require a new suite of calibration and certification tests, which could take some time.

“That is something we are working through at the moment. We think it will be relatively easy, but it’s a matter of timing,” Ms McAlary said.

The receiver appointed to DSI, Stephen Longley, of PricewaterhouseCoopers, laid off DSI’s 400 workers on Monday after he was appointed.

He suspended production until he could reorganise operations and is aiming to resume production at the start of next week if he can make the necessary arrangements.

“With the co-operation of customers and suppliers, trading is anticipated to resume in a reduced operation next week,” he said in a statement.

“The receivers and managers will be talking with interested parties with the intention of selling the business as a going concern.”

Ms McAlary would not be drawn on whether Ford would be prepared to make concessions on pricing to help DSI get back into production.

She said Ford would be happy to continue using the DSI transmission, but that work had to continue on finding an alternative, in case DSI did not resume production.

“The six speed is the better transmission, but there are whole lot of things we have to look at. We will do what we have to do to keep our plant operating.”

DSI has survived a number of corporate failures and changes of ownership over the past 20 years.

The company was created by the US parts conglomerate Borg-Warner in 1958 when it acquired the long-established engineering company Coote and Jorgenson.

Borg-Warner Australia was listed on the Australian sharemarket until 1987 when it was acquired by the BTR Nylex group, which was led by Alan Jackson.

When BTR Nylex had to go into a managed sell-down of its assets, the Albury gearbox manufacturer was sold to the Ion group in April, 2002.

In 2003, the transmission plant employed 1100 people, but that number dropped sharply after Ford decided to use the imported ZF six-speed gearbox rather than a newly developed Ion six-speeder.

The Ion group subsequently ran into financial difficulty and was forced to sell the transmission plant in February 2006 to a consortium of local and international investors in a deal believed to be worth around $70 million.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257560001D8178

[phillyc]

Not good. I wish Ford had taken up the 6spd from ION as the base model transmission for the BF and then FG. This might have been enough volumes to stop this from happening.

It was also tested in a hybrid form for use in the SsangYong SUV's way back in 2004.

Hopefully DSi will be saved, but if not. I sure hope that Ford fits the 6spd ZF gearbox to the EGas models.

NB I just hope Ford update the LPG system in the process!

[Ghiadude]

mmmmm not good, probably the first of many many suppliers that will struggle.

[Falcon Coupe]

The 5 speed auto will make a great addition the the E gas models, it should help boost sales.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

The 5 speed auto will make a great addition the the E gas models, it should help boost sales.

Agreed itll make the egas model even more desirable but i dont think the 5 speed is made here in Oz. Itd be noce if ford could buy the company and then engineer its own range of boxes.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

Agreed itll make the egas model even more desirable but i dont think the 5 speed is made here in Oz.

Made in France, by Ford I think.

[mcnews]

Only way I would consider a gas falcon is with the ZF. Every other box is absolute pox in comparison.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Only way I would consider a gas falcon is with the ZF. Every other box is absolute pox in comparison.

Not really an option on the base models but. I wonder what the difference in price would be, 5 speed vs ZF.

[Bluehoon]

Biggest issue ford has is the LPG system, both the 5 and 6 speeders require information feeds from sensors that don't exist on the current LPG system.

Interesting times ahead.

[joolz]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Not good. I wish Ford had taken up the 6spd from ION as the base model transmission for the BF and then FG. This might have been enough volumes to stop this from happening.

It was also tested in a hybrid form for use in the SsangYong SUV's way back in 2004.

Hopefully DSi will be saved, but if not. I sure hope that Ford fits the 6spd ZF gearbox to the EGas models.

NB I just hope Ford update the LPG system in the process!

DSI bought out ION which was BTR. If Ford volumes were to save DSI they would have to also supply a 5speed along with the 6. Even then i would highly doubt Ford volumes would be enough to save them.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Not really an option on the base models but. I wonder what the difference in price would be, 5 speed vs ZF.

Pretty sure there are 2 ZF's?.. lower torque one and the one in the higher kw cars? I had a rental XR6 n/a with the zf... It was nothing like the "real" ZF.

Apart from that.... This Borg-Warner Albury plant must be jinxed, truly?... The ownership changes have been amazing... How many?? And NO-ONE can get it up to scratch... The Dana diffs are a classic example... (a monday one, nice and tight, A Friday one, more backlash then a black civil rights movement).
One has to really feel for the employees... One minute cya... then come back,... Cya, Back... Cya Etc Etc..... Our Tarriffs are the REAL stinker here though.... One day, when Australia is the biggest warehouse in the world, the pollies might wake up?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Not good. I wish Ford had taken up the 6spd from ION as the base model transmission for the BF and then FG. This might have been enough volumes to stop this from happening.

But - would the ION 6 speeder have been a better trans than the ZF? Not trying to be a smartarse but Ford have got to try to make every post a winner but they don't, however with the ZF 6 speed they did.

I remember back in...2003 or 2004 I think it was, someone on a forum that shall remain nameless, stated that they had been at ION's test facility where there were prototype 6 speed auto Falcons running around but they kept on sh1tting themselves (the autos, not the person) and they believed them to be in "very early stages of development". It could be that, because the ION 6 speeder could not overcome durability issues, Ford went with the proven off the shelf ZF?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

But - would the ION 6 speeder have been a better trans than the ZF? Not trying to be a smartarse but Ford have got to try to make every post a winner but they don't, however with the ZF 6 speed they did.

I remember back in...2003 or 2004 I think it was, someone on a forum that shall remain nameless, stated that they had been at ION's test facility where there were prototype 6 speed auto Falcons running around but they kept on sh1tting themselves (the autos, not the person) and they believed them to be in "very early stages of development". It could be that, because the ION 6 speeder could not overcome durability issues, Ford went with the proven off the shelf ZF?

The 6spd ION has proven to be reliable in the SsangYong models. The beauty was that it fitted inside the current casing of the 4spd. So fitment would not be an issue! I'd expect the torque limit would be around 450Nm too.

The ZF is a brilliant box and deserves it's place at the top of the pecking order.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Biggest issue ford has is the LPG system, both the 5 and 6 speeders require information feeds from sensors that don't exist on the current LPG system.

Interesting times ahead.

Well, Ford suggested they were also looking at introducing ESP/DSC to the E-Gas models in early 2009, which means a more sophisticated LPG system was coming anyway.

Maybe, we can get a Liquid Injection LPG and 6spd ION.

That combination could well be in the low 11s per 100km. Surely that would outweigh the extra 500 bucks it might cost to fit? Even from a fleet perspective.

[Jastel]

Wait until you have to change the oil or repair one but
Four speed is fine for fleet vehicles.

[waggaclint]

i wonder what this mean to people with 4-speeds down the track in regards to parts for them hopefully youl still be able to buy parts for the BTR box....

[Ohio XB]

For those that think the demise of GM is a good thing, look to this example of the impact of suppliers being lost if GM went under. This is an isolated incident, yet Ford is scrambling over the logistics it represents.........and this is ONLY ONE SUPPLIER, one part.


For those that think GM or Chrysler going under is "good riddance" do you understand now? Many suppliers are shared. When many are impacted by GM or Chrysler going under what do you think the affect will be on ALL of the manufacturers?


Steve

[Buzz Box]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Well, Ford suggested they were also looking at introducing ESP/DSC to the E-Gas models in early 2009, which means a more sophisticated LPG system was coming anyway.

Maybe, we can get a Liquid Injection LPG and 6spd ION.

That combination could well be in the low 11s per 100km. Surely that would outweigh the extra 500 bucks it might cost to fit? Even from a fleet perspective.

If they introduced LI-LPG and 6 speed I think the petrol models would be under SERIOUS threat!!

[Mr Hardware]

I'm in two minds over this.
I don't think they should axe the 4-speeder just because their supplier goes belly-up, but i don't think they should eliminate the 5- or 6-speeders either. I think that both the 4,5 and 6 speeds (or at least the 4 and 5 or 4 and 6) should be available on the egas models. Taxi operators love the four-speeders, they are tough and reliable and in ba/bf form, report over half a mil easy out of a box. I'm sure the 6-speeder would cost a crapload more to replace and with all that changing would probably not last as long.
anyway, just my 2c.

[Brent]

A terrible state of affairs regarding DSI and another sad story for Australian manufacturing. However, this has been coming from a long, long way off and is, in a nutshell, is symbolic for an industry that is basically stuffed. I had a fair insight into BTR and ION and won't go into detail in a public forum except to day that it was never going to end any other way. Pure economics, cold and simple.

Changing tact for a moment, the upside is that the ZF box is an absolute pearler. I'm constantly reminded of this when I hop from the GT into our Subaru Forester with its ancient and lumpy 4 speed auto. Urrrggghhh!!!!!

[Mongoose]

Im sure there are plently of wreckers around who can supply then with some used 4 speeds from E series falcons

[Mr Hardware]

hop from the GT into our Subaru Forester with its ancient and lumpy 4 speed auto. Urrrggghhh!!!!!

Well that's not saying much, the auto in the subaru forester is possibly the worst automatic transmission i've ever driven. Slow, sloppy, slow, indecisive, slow, sluggish, did i mention slow? It's rageworthy. I had the pleasure to compare the manual and auto versions back to back, and its safe to say that the automatic ruins the whole experience. That being said, i'd never buy a manual forester either!

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by Mongoose

Im sure there are plently of wreckers around who can supply then with some used 4 speeds from E series falcons

I've got one they can have if they pick it up. It's been sitting around for 2 years and was pretty worn out when it came out of the car so may need some work :P

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Well that's not saying much, the auto in the subaru forester is possibly the worst automatic transmission i've ever driven. Slow, sloppy, slow, indecisive, slow, sluggish, did i mention slow? It's rageworthy. I had the pleasure to compare the manual and auto versions back to back, and its safe to say that the automatic ruins the whole experience. That being said, i'd never buy a manual forester either!

Have you driven a French automatic? They make the Forresters gearbox look like a Gem, and puts the BorgWarner/BTR/ION/DSI 4 Speed box into ZF Territory.

[barbarian]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I'm in two minds over this.
I don't think they should axe the 4-speeder just because their supplier goes belly-up, but i don't think they should eliminate the 5- or 6-speeders either. I think that both the 4,5 and 6 speeds (or at least the 4 and 5 or 4 and 6) should be available on the egas models. Taxi operators love the four-speeders, they are tough and reliable and in ba/bf form, report over half a mil easy out of a box. I'm sure the 6-speeder would cost a crapload more to replace and with all that changing would probably not last as long.
anyway, just my 2c.

Its the taxi industry bringing Ford's and our Falcon's reputationdown.. a person who travels in a falcon cab is more than likely NOT TO purchase a falcon.

death to taxi industry, get a aurion ffs

[bd737]

Originally Posted by barbarian

Its the taxi industry bringing Ford's and our Falcon's reputationdown.. a person who travels in a falcon cab is more than likely NOT TO purchase a falcon.

death to taxi industry, get a aurion ffs

Today's fatwa - death to the taxi industry! :

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I'm in two minds over this.
I don't think they should axe the 4-speeder just because their supplier goes belly-up, but i don't think they should eliminate the 5- or 6-speeders either. I think that both the 4,5 and 6 speeds (or at least the 4 and 5 or 4 and 6) should be available on the egas models. Taxi operators love the four-speeders, they are tough and reliable and in ba/bf form, report over half a mil easy out of a box. I'm sure the 6-speeder would cost a crapload more to replace and with all that changing would probably not last as long.
anyway, just my 2c.

Where will they get the four speeds from? No supplier = no parts. This will also be the problem if Holden/GM go under. you would be hard pressed to find someone willing to tool up a new venture to supply the aussie car manufacturers.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by barbarian

Its the taxi industry bringing Ford's and our Falcon's reputationdown.. a person who travels in a falcon cab is more than likely NOT TO purchase a falcon.

The taxi industry has been bringing down the reputation of falcons to new car buyers for oh, only about 35 YEARS.

Ford knows that a huge, huge percentage of falcon buyers are fleet and taxi purposes. Thats why they don't mind.

Holden on the other hand has said on numerous occasions that they don't supply a taxi pack as they don't want the commodore used as a taxi as it will bring the reputation of the commodore down.

Add in with that Ford's long-standing global directive for use of alternative fuels and the continuous use of the bulletproof I6 and falcon=taxi.

[cycle myth]

I think you will find that Ford DO mind the image issue associated with Falcon = Taxi.

Part of the reason for the collateral damage to the brand.

What a "great" introduction to a non-ford / non-falcon buyer - jump in a taxi that stinks, has vinyl seats, has done 600,000km's and so weazes, shuders, corners like its on 3 legs and crashes over bumps.

While many new falcon sales are taxi's - you will also find many are sourced as second hand units and then run until they stop.

HOW MANY OF YOU GUYS CHOSE TO PAINT YOUR FALCON YELLOW?

[cycle myth]

Oh and bring on a DLPG Falcon with 6 speed and some updated direct injection technology.

What sort of economy and cost of ownership would this bring?

What would be the need for diesel and 4 cylinder?

Only thing you need would be to find a country that could provide a good lpg supply (i think there is a little off the north west shelf).

The government could get real too and start providing some support and legislation for local companies to invest.