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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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28-09-2009, 04:08 PM | #1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Every 3 months public companies in the USA submit financial details to the regulators - the 10-Q
This includes a balance sheet (which I can understand) and a profit and loss (which I could not make comparative sense of) Because of different levels of summarisation in the 10-Qs I looked at, this is the best level of detail I can show the news (bearing in mind that I may be misunderstanding the 10-Q) GM Assets 136,046,000,000 GM Liabilities (-) 191,640,000,000 GM net -55,594,000,000 Ford Assets 200,190,000,000 Ford Liabilities (-) 209,608,000,000 Ford net - 9,418,000,000 So, GM is almost 6 times worse off than Ford An improvement on 9 months ago ... but we should expect no less, they got rid of the worst parts Especially seeing that Ford seem to have made a profit of about 2,261,000,000, and GM a loss or about 19,537,000,000 ... I (IMHO) conclude that GM is not out of the poo, neither is Ford - but Ford remains in a significantly better position. |
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28-09-2009, 04:16 PM | #2 | ||
VFII SS UTE
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both companys need to get rid of those (union) retirement packages.
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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28-09-2009, 04:26 PM | #3 | ||
Donating Member
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Agreed, it must be killing them.
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28-09-2009, 04:33 PM | #4 | |||
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28-09-2009, 04:44 PM | #5 | |||
Regular Member
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well said, if only they'd would work for free too then there'd be much more profits
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28-09-2009, 04:51 PM | #6 | |||
VFII SS UTE
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can't they pay the extra them self!! "i do". free dental, medical for the rest of their live's....
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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28-09-2009, 04:57 PM | #7 | |||
FORMERLY TX3DUDE
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If thats what they signed when they started then thats what they should get.
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28-09-2009, 05:01 PM | #8 | |||
Meep Meep
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Thundering on.... |
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28-09-2009, 05:13 PM | #9 | |||
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Quote:
http://www.gmret.org/ http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...ns+are+at+risk
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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28-09-2009, 05:19 PM | #10 | ||
Banned
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Ford is actualy still a family owned company guys....it is good to see them in a reasonable position financialy.
Sombody has been keeping an eye things....you can be sure of that. William Clay Ford Junior... I think it is, he can veto any direction the board of directors wants to go, if he thinks that it would affect the future sustainability of the Company. GM perhaps did not have that added safe guard ? |
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28-09-2009, 05:20 PM | #11 | |||
Za Dom spremni
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Quote:
GM ( government Motors ) is doomed ...no 2 ways about it.
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28-09-2009, 05:32 PM | #12 | ||
VFII SS UTE
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well they have widdled it back a bit (GM)
ford is doing the same..http://healthinsurance.about.com/b/2...h-benefits.htm
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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28-09-2009, 06:36 PM | #13 | |||
XP Coupe
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Quote:
The Ford liabilities dropped mainly because Ford credit bought $3.4b debt for $1.1b, resulting in a net $2.2bn debt reduction and $1.1b increase in cash flow. So things aren't always what they appear. |
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28-09-2009, 08:25 PM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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No need to be jealous wally . Gm is in safe hands now tax payer money never runs out gm can run at a loss forever |
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28-09-2009, 10:05 PM | #15 | ||
XP Coupe
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......................
Last edited by Wally; 28-09-2009 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Pointless responding |
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28-09-2009, 10:39 PM | #16 | |||
You dig, we stick!
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One decided to spend big in the toughest of times and kept spending on new innovative products, and since the GFC have unveiled some great new models, with plenty more to come. The other, decided to cut spending, pretending to try to avoid any bankruptcy. Then one moment they'll release the Volt, the next, it's canceled. One moment they'll re-introduce a VE, the next moment they'll cancel it. They don't look like they've progressed from their medieval state which put them in this situation.
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29-09-2009, 09:56 AM | #17 | ||
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Having to repay US$35b in debt and obligations within 5 years is not somewhere any company wants to be, especially when they will be bleeding until at least 2011. It's going to be a really hard ask for Ford, but the way I see it is that if GM come out of bankruptcy protection as a real going concern there must be an underlying profit, which should also mean Ford will be profitable:- while GM are being scrutinised by the Govt, they are less likely to drag the market down with loss leaders.
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29-09-2009, 10:04 AM | #18 | |||
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29-09-2009, 11:36 AM | #19 | ||||
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GM will also have preference over ford for government fleets, as it is in the governments best interest for GM to make a profit. Same can be said for Holden here and to a lesser extent, toyota.
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29-09-2009, 12:03 PM | #20 | ||||
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Well that would be extremely odd, seeing as GM is in chapter11. The declared carryover liabilities are nowhere near what is being implied. Gotta link? Quote:
Similarly I don't know how many Holden V Ford cars are leased by govts here, but I do know that most depts have a 4 cylinder preferred policy and I do know it's no coincidence the Falcon is getting a 4 pot. |
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29-09-2009, 01:55 PM | #21 | ||
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29-09-2009, 02:00 PM | #22 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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29-09-2009, 03:20 PM | #23 | |||
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I cannot re-locate the 10-Q filing I used, so perhaps I got the source incorrect - the figure do look the same as the ones from 12 months ago :-$ , at the moment I can only locate the first Q 2009 for GM. Total assets 82,290,000,000 Total Liabilities 172,810,000,000 which puts it in the red by about 90,000,000,000 but of course it is not valid to compare that to Ford second Q 2009. Here it is: (Interestingly not listed on the GM site) http://www.gurufocus.com/StockLink.p...08&report=10-Q and here is the Ford one http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/...0361-09-017928 Filed in August for the 2nd Q 2009 Again, sincere apologies. I'll see if I can give this some more time tmw. BTW: GM has exited Chapter 11, and is now two companies Motors Liquidation and General Motors |
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29-09-2009, 03:34 PM | #24 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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for Q1 2009 Ford was in this position
Assetts 203,134,000,000 Liabilities 219,611,000,000 in the red by about 16,000,000,000 http://www.gurufocus.com/StockLink.p...08&report=10-Q |
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29-09-2009, 04:12 PM | #25 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
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Also mate, couldn't agree more about it potentially being a disadvantage, particularly when the vehicles you make have to come at a discount. As for the 4 cyl preferred policy here, absolutely spot on again. That's also coincidentally why the Holden Cruze made its Australian debut earlier amongst all the hype about it being made in Australia (eventually). Some people actually believe it's Australian made and supporting local jobs.
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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29-09-2009, 06:36 PM | #26 | |||
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Interestingly figures in there for Ford: * Total cash and marketable securities increased by $5.893B 21,560M @ June 30 2009. 15,673M @ Dec 31 2008 * Total assets decreased by $18.619B 204,328M @ June 30 2009. 222,947M @ Dec 31 2008 * Total liabilities decreased by $23.728B 213,746M @ June 30 2009. 237,474M @ Dec 31 2008 * Total deficit decreased by $5.109B 9,418M @ June 30 2009 14,527M @ Dec 31 2008 Overall pretty good figures for Ford. Certainly showing some decent headway is being made. At that rate, by this time next year their deficit should be zero. Still, a long way to go though.
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29-09-2009, 09:12 PM | #27 | |||
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Its not that they don't deserve a pension, its just that if a compromise is not found between Ford/GM/Chrysler and the workers there will potentially be no pensions because the companies won't exist. No business can continue to operate with something like 2-3 retired workers claiming pensions for every one worker. A few years ago a read an article in Time magazine saying that Ford and GM's retiree's pensions where adding approximately between $1000-1500 US to the to the cost of every car they built. Hard to be competitive against other countries which don't have such generous pension plans. |
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29-09-2009, 09:38 PM | #28 | |||
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30-09-2009, 09:02 AM | #29 | ||||
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No, they're part of their operating expenses and thus a constant liability. That's why Ford aimed for, and got concessions from the unions recently as part of their restructuring plan.
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30-09-2009, 10:37 AM | #30 | |||
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http://www.gregpalast.com/grand-thef...bankrupted-gm/ Although he does explain the concessions from the unions. This link indicates that the Ford pension plan has 21B in assets with liabilities of 20B. http://www.knowyourpension.org/pensi...sion_plan.aspx So, I really don't know how this works. I'm just glad my super is locked up away from my employer. |
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