Damn Cyclists

[388cube_edxr8]

Whilst driving, I continually encounter cyclists on our roads. They refuse to yield to traffic and constantly swerve to the left or right which makes passing them a nerve wracking experience, especially when there is oncoming traffic. The activities of these people endanger their own lives, the lives of their children who ride with them on the road, and the lives of the drivers and passengers of cars forced to drive onto the wrong side of the road to avoid collisions.

In addition to this, most of them ride after dark, in the middle of the lane, with no lights or reflectors visible on the rear of the bicycle or rider.

I fail to see why as vehicle owners and drivers we are forced to pay for registration (which includes inexplicable charges like “Surcharge” and “Traffic Improvement Fee”) to enable us to legally operate our vehicles on the road, whilst cyclists are allowed to obstruct traffic and endanger their own lives and the lives of others and it is considered normal.

If I were to drive an unregistered car on the road at night, with no lights on and at less than 10 km/h, the policeman who discovered me would have a field day, and rightly so. Why should somebody on a vehicle less safe than a car have relaxed rules?

Cyclists are supposed to have the same rights and responsibilities as the operator of a motor vehicle, and yet do not need to pay registration and are free to inhibit the flow of traffic and increase the risk of collisions as they see fit.

Just needed to get that out. If you are a cyclist and you follow common sense and not the rules, I applaud you. You may disregard the above rant.

If however, you are one of the 99% of lycra-clad mobile chicanes that cause the above mentioned problems, you know who you are, don't argue with me, and get off our roads. Don't get offended, I don't care. Go away.

[Windsor220]

The worst ones are the riders that are going quick doing around 10km/h under the limit so it can be a bit hard to get around them if its peak hour.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by 388cube_edxr8

I fail to see why as vehicle owners and drivers we are forced to pay for registration (which includes inexplicable charges like “Surcharge” and “Traffic Improvement Fee”) to enable us to legally operate our vehicles on the road, whilst cyclists are allowed to obstruct traffic and endanger their own lives and the lives of others and it is considered normal.

.

Rofl......are you serious? I suppose you want to charge pedestrians for walking on the sidewalk too, register them and charge extra for walking across a roadway?

Roads are there for the public, and bicycles are quite suited to riding on them, there wouldnt need to be any traffic improvement fees if more people rode them. Why dont you take advantage of no charge transport?

have you considered the logistics or registering every pushbike that may be used on the roads in this country? How many pushbikes per household. Rego stickers and number plates, annual fees, all for your 12 year old that rides to school on one? of course, its very important to be able to get the rego on bicycles that are used for dangerous crimes such as bank robbery etc.

[FGX-351]

I had that happen to me this afternoon along Bracken Ridge road, my lane had to merge and in the middle of my lane is a cyclist just before I had to merge, I had to venture slightly into the next lane to go around and avoid a collision.

The guy in a skyline infront of me almost side swiped the car in the lane beside us trying to go around this cyclist aswell.
All the cyclist could do was yell out expletives and do the w#nker gesture.

I dont have a problem with cylists but there is a perfectly good pathway beside the road so these sort of near misses are avoided, the cyclist had no reason to be in the middle of the road.

[Mickxr8]

bullbar and a :love tap ?"

[iCat]

if they just all obeyed the road rules, and all us drivers kept our eyes open, all would be good. we'd all be happy vegemites then.

one thing that strikes me is their lack of visibility at night. one little reflector on the back of the bike does not make for good visibility. :togo: as far as i can tell, i am looking at the reflector on a road side post. get lots of reflectors - lots and LOTS of them!

[DBourne]

there are idiots in every walk of life.

Yes there are idiot cyclists, even I encounter them whilst riding and they are so frustrating it's not funny.

But don't paint all cyclists with the same brush.

I do a lot of riding, and the idiot driving I see is amazing, and also nothing more satisfying than an idiot thinking they are king sugar and cutting me off, only to then over take them with a small burst of speed.

You all harp on about rego etc, well i would definitely pay a registration fee to use cycling ONLY paths that could get you to many places, not just a select few.

Also, just take 20 seconds to get around them comfortably and then you are on your way, simple.

edit:

to anyone who says "use the footpath" that doesn't work for a few reasons:

1) If you have a proper road bike, those paths are brutal on them

2) doing 30-40km/h crusising speed (which I do 90% of the time) can go very badly when joe blow isn't paying attention and just wanders across the whole path

3) It is a lot safer, comfortable, easier to ride on the road, specially when drivers realise that they have half a brain and the ability to operate a couple of pedals and a big wheel infront of them

Although I will admit, I don't bother riding in the dark of night as it really is just too dangerous.

[LTDHO]

We just need to pay more attention to them and less to other distractions, like the remaining road rules, then they would be completely safe...

Just remember, when they swerve into your path and you clip them, your scratch will be fixed in under a week. They will still be in recovery before going to physio!
Most of these cyclists have no care in the world. I watch them when I'm in traffic and is does amaze me as to why they are not dead yet.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

I had that happen to me this afternoon along Bracken Ridge road, my lane had to merge and in the middle of my lane is a cyclist just before I had to merge, I had to venture slightly into the next lane to go around and avoid a collision.

The guy in a skyline infront of me almost side swiped the car in the lane beside us trying to go around this cyclist aswell.
All the cyclist could do was yell out expletives and do the w#nker gesture.

I dont have a problem with cylists but there is a perfectly good pathway beside the road so these sort of near misses are avoided, the cyclist had no reason to be in the middle of the road.

You both could have waited before overtaking the bike and done it when it was safer, 10 seconds would not have killed you.

[duaned]

I had one of the lycra wearing tools decide to use my van as a leaning post whilst I was sitting at a set of lights. Yep, I got out ( and held up traffic unfortunatley) and let him have a piece of my mind ( and nearly a piece of skin from my fist.) Funny enough the motorist behind me also entered into the debate and used a few choice words aiming toward the cyclist as well. Needless to say, the cyclist took off in a hurry, presumably in an effort to escape to controvesy he had created or he was in a hurry to get home to replace his lycra outfit that was now converted to a wetsuit!

[PDIDDY]

Sometimes as a driver, you don't have the luxury of waiting 10 seconds. If there are upcoming traffic control devices, roundabouts, merging traffic etc the need to get around these guys quickly is important, before having to wait another 5 minutes at 30kmh till you can have another go.

[Pinch]

With GeckoGT.

The average delay caused by a cyclist to a driver is measured in seconds. Just actually think about it if you have the time. Cyclists are part of the traffic, not a barrier to it. By extension of the logic that they impede 'traffic' I look forward to all the subsequent threads bagging all trucks, buses, older cars, diesel cars, cars towing trailers, etc etc... hell anything that doesn't have a power to weight ratio above 125kw/tonne, can do at least 13's and is always driven as such. The whole negative 'cyclist' attitude is simply a hysterical one, and one of the perennial ones whipped up by the media - and inpatient and people who seem to have narcissistic episodes like Magda Subanski.

The old 'when they pay rego' line is as old as it is ridiculous. All but a very few cyclists have at least one, and usually multiple cars sitting at home. All rego'd, all insured, not taking up parking spaces, not creating maintenance issues on the road, and subsiding your full time running costs by not using a car they are legally allowed to. Be careful what you wish for, for many people pay as you go rego would be a huge shock.

While I often ride a bike for practical reasons, I am not of the lycra warrior persuasion. I do take up a whole lane on multi lane roads - so I don't get pushed into gutters at 40-50km/h. Ouch. 2.5m enough for one vehicle at 40km/h and another measuring 1.9m at 50km/h? - hell to the no. Not the way 80% of motorists drive! Despite the Australian Road Rules stating that cyclists CAN filter to the front of a red light queue I don't do that either - just maintain my position in line in the lane. If you can't go around a cyclist because of other traffic, then by rights your grievance also lies with the other traffic for also getting in your way.

Having to swerve into oncoming traffic for a bike? Incredibly foolhardy and dangerous, what ever happened to that middle (or left) pedal under your feet? That will slow your car until its safe to pass.

Like many motorists, many cyclists are idiots. One hit and ran my wife doing 3K damage when they ran a red light, but that doesn't mean I am buying into the whole motorists v cyclists crap. Could have just as easily been a car - and I am glad it wasn't. This whole cyclist hysteria is simply that. Not having a go at the OP, but seriously if people think about it the time taken to post in forums like this or elsewhere, it would by much longer than the total time most people are held up by a bike.

Cyclists not being lit up at night - yep they are temporary Australians. Just like idiots that drive in near dark conditions without lights on in their cars just because a clock tells them its not night yet.

Chillax people. Seconds are not worth killing another human being for.

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

there are idiots in every walk of life.

Yes there are idiot cyclists, even I encounter them whilst riding and they are so frustrating it's not funny.

But don't paint all cyclists with the same brush.

I do a lot of riding, and the idiot driving I see is amazing, and also nothing more satisfying than an idiot thinking they are king sugar and cutting me off, only to then over take them with a small burst of speed.

You all harp on about rego etc, well i would definitely pay a registration fee to use cycling ONLY paths that could get you to many places, not just a select few.

Also, just take 20 seconds to get around them comfortably and then you are on your way, simple.

edit:

to anyone who says "use the footpath" that doesn't work for a few reasons:

1) If you have a proper road bike, those paths are brutal on them

2) doing 30-40km/h crusising speed (which I do 90% of the time) can go very badly when joe blow isn't paying attention and just wanders across the whole path

3) It is a lot safer, comfortable, easier to ride on the road, specially when drivers realise that they have half a brain and the ability to operate a couple of pedals and a big wheel infront of them

Although I will admit, I don't bother riding in the dark of night as it really is just too dangerous.

2) doing 30-40km/h crusising speed (which I do 90% of the time) can go very badly when joe blow isn't paying attention and just wanders across the whole path

Interesting.

As a cyclist, you are not happy to entertain the idea of giving way to pedestrians because they are much slower moving traffic, selfish and oblivious to their surroundings.

Very interesting...

[FalconXR6]

But in all seriousness, what can we do about this ?

There are a plethora of people out there who simply can not understand this law that allows cyclists to ride on our rides despite the obvious safety issues created by them and the lack of regulation.

What can we do ???

I am willing to participate in anything that will help get them off the road OR impliment law that will make sharing our roads SAFE...

[dave289]

hey pinch your right about one thing that there are plenty of idiot cyclists and drivers as well.they both shiiiittee me no end .you talk about cycling hysteria created. It is fact created by these tools on bikes.the thing I cant understand is these dopes are the ones who will be killed when there is a collision but they want to take up the whole road in groups with no regard for the traffic. and cut acrooss in front of you without even lookin.these braindeads should be barred from the road. they obstruct traffic which is against the law so get rid of them. : while were at it get rid of all the tools driving cars and I'll be a happy man.I could go on for ever about this but I could'nt be bothered.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

2) doing 30-40km/h crusising speed (which I do 90% of the time) can go very badly when joe blow isn't paying attention and just wanders across the whole path

Interesting.

As a cyclist, you are not happy to entertain the idea of giving way to pedestrians because they are much slower moving traffic, selfish and oblivious to their surroundings.

Very interesting...

No it isnt interesting, basically cyclists are being given permission to ride on a footpath and it is up to them to take all care and responsibility and cycle to the conditions. They are not a serious alternative for cyclists who want to cover reasonable distances at even a moderate speed.

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

But in all seriousness, what can we do about this ?

There are a plethora of people out there who simply can not understand this law that allows cyclists to ride on our rides despite the obvious safety issues created by them and the lack of regulation.

What can we do ???

I am willing to participate in anything that will help get them off the road OR impliment law that will make sharing our roads SAFE...

The safety issues are created by cars!

It may be news to you, but we had roads before the car existed, they are provided by society for the public to use to get from A to B. Car drivers that dont have the skills, patience or understanding to cope with some cyclists to overtake, negotiate should hand in their licences, clearly they are unsuited for driving on public roads.

Sort of off topic, I was watching a show on the ABC late last night about the public transport problems in Sydney. They followed one person who complained their daily car journey of 5km was taking up to half an hour. I agree the public transport needs to be addressed, but it screamed out, why waste all that time sitting in the car when you could be home in 10mins on a bicycle?

On the subject of lycra fools cruising in peletons of 15+ riders, that should be outlawed, its simply against one major road rule, keeping a safe distance from other vehicles, riding on each others wheels is an accident waiting to happen and often does and understandably does create a serious impass for people wanting to go past.

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

But in all seriousness, what can we do about this ?

There are a plethora of people out there who simply can not understand this law that allows cyclists to ride on our rides despite the obvious safety issues created by them and the lack of regulation.

What can we do ???

I am willing to participate in anything that will help get them off the road OR impliment law that will make sharing our roads SAFE...

I honestly don't know. I live in Sydney, particularly southern Sydney where cycling is de-rigour. Watch the peletons cruise around on Sunday mornings. Yet, on a point to point, total trip time basis I have never really been held up by cyclists, even when I occassionaly have to slow and go around.

Maybe reassessing priorities in life and learning to relax - and what's really important? I am not joking either. Car v cyclist isn't the only manifestation of societal impatience, but it is recurring quite a bit. It is more psychological than material (especially on the basis of total time delays). This makes it very hard to address.

I can't see more regulation working - we already have enough. Enforcement of road rules by a visible highway patrol would help, but most road user safety conscious people have advocated themsleves hoarse on that one. To no avail.

Education, meh. People will only hear what they want unless its enforced.

A Canberra style off road path cyclists nirvana for all places in Australia? Like all great transport ideas, public and private, Australia simply doesn't have the population of taxpayers to support widespread infrastructure development for every type of transport catering for the widespread geography.

If cyclists don't materially increase travel times, and in sufficient numbers can actually reduce urban travel times, I maintain that there is nothing for it but to 'let it ride', smell some roses, and think that there is another few litres of petrol for your pride and joy before all the oil runs out.

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by dave289

hey pinch your right about one thing that there are plenty of idiot cyclists and drivers as well.they both shiiiittee me no end .you talk about cycling hysteria created. It is fact created by these tools on bikes.the thing I cant understand is these dopes are the ones who will be killed when there is a collision but they want to take up the whole road in groups with no regard for the traffic. and cut acrooss in front of you without even lookin.these braindeads should be barred from the road. they obstruct traffic which is against the law so get rid of them. : while were at it get rid of all the tools driving cars and I'll be a happy man.I could go on for ever about this but I could'nt be bothered.

You are right in that there are plenty of cyclists, who by the nature of their transport, should have more emphasis on self preservation. Their lack thereof then defaults to use car drivers to maintain their existence. True and irrefutable.

But personally I don't see huge amount of this (although I see some). Probably because those that partake in it live limited existences. I do know that it is much more common to be simply held up by a cyclist, rather than taking serious avoidance action to avoid an actual collision. This is what there is a resounding chorus crying out about, and this is what I have an issue with.

Your point about the 'obstructing traffic' being the law is interesting though. Cyclists ARE defined traffic. Their mere being cannot in of itself be illegal, it is just not good jurisprudence. There are plenty of examples of slower moving traffic too, yet the same argument does not appear to be applied to them. The obstruction law I understand applies where the obstruction is wilful and deliberate, and not in keeping with the usual way in which the transport is conducted - ie using your car to deliberately block a road etc. The only time I have heard it used is charging motorists failing to keep left where required. Even this though is a statutory misconstruction as there is a particular offence of Failing to Keep Left which can be applied in that particular instance.

[prydey]

its normally the minority that spoil it for the majority in most things. one bad cyclist, a problem does not make.

we all have stories of those who are a little more foolhardy. picture a 3 lane road (each direction), 80 zone winding down a hill. heavy vehicles go a little slower in the left lane. a cyclist, whilst he wasn't holding me up (in an 80 zone) decided to use the middle lane to overtake a truck. truck was doing around 60. i was impressed at the speed of the cyclist and didn't think much of it but when you look back at those sort of situations and decisions, they can oh so easily end up messy.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

to anyone who says "use the footpath" that doesn't work for a few reasons:

1) If you have a proper road bike, those paths are brutal on them

2) doing 30-40km/h crusising speed (which I do 90% of the time) can go very badly when joe blow isn't paying attention and just wanders across the whole path

3) It is a lot safer, comfortable, easier to ride on the road, specially when drivers realise that they have half a brain and the ability to operate a couple of pedals and a big wheel infront of them

4) I remember hearing that it is illegal for riders over 12 to use the footpath unless walking their bike.

[Ducati888]

There's d*cheads on push bikes
There's d*ickheads in cars
There's d*ickheads on motorbikes
There's d*ckheads in trucks
There's d*ickheads everywhere.

They are a fact of life and the majority of road users (and general population) so rather than complain, you need to get used to it and relax & expect the occasional hold up.

Also, to the OP (388 Cube) - why do you assume that the majority of pushbike riders don't also own a car and pay rego? Just because they are not driving their car doesn't mean they haven't shelled out $600 large for rego this year.

[geckoGT]

Sgt Bourne and Pinch, brilliant post guys!

bullbar and a :love tap ?"

I love this argument that "I pay rego, they don't, they should not be on the road". For the subscribers of this argument, think about these points-
1 A cyclist causes no wear and tear on the roads.
2 A cyclist does not contribute to polution.
3 Many cities in the world encourage bike use in the CBD as it actually limits traffic congestion. Top gear video with the new mag had a race across London between a bike, boat, public transport and car. They finished in that order, with the bike stopping at red lights. It was other cars and busses holding the car up, not the bikes.
4 The average cyclist, even those that just ride 30 minutes a day, have significantly less chance of developing heart disease, lung disease, diabetes and a whole plethora of other life span decreasing disease. The beer swilling, chain smoking, pie munching stressed out executive (and many other motorists that fit else where in the spectrum) are at an increased risk of these diseases. This results in the cyclist placng a significantly decreased financial drain on the public health system when compared to the motorist that leads a sedentary lifestyle, stretching your medicare dollar further. Maybe the cyclist should pay rego, but be exempt medicare levy.
5 As has been said, the majority of cyclists have a car, pay rego but chose not to use the car. For example, I have 2 cars, at one stage had 3 (all V8's). We now have the 2, one of which is a V8 ute so it pays the highest rego bracket in QLD, but it drives a total of 10km a day with Tori to work and back. I think all that money I pay on the ute offsets what I do not pay on the bike.

Another point that has not yet been raised, this is a car enthusiasts website, so therefore the bias will be towards the motorist. Log onto a cycling enthusiast website and the complaint is that motorists are all evil and incompetent, it is a question of perspective. For example, I rode in competition from the age of 12 until I was 32. During that time I was doing a lot of training, up to 10,000km a year on the bike. As a result of all those hours on the bike I had a number of times that motorists caused me to have an accident (way too many to count), often resulting in broken bones (broken wrist, collar bone, tibia, fibula, ribs, toe, 4 bones in my foot and not all in the one incident). According to the logic here that all cyclists are terrible because they slow me down and that is justified, what attitude am I justified to have about motorists considering they actively tried to kill me? My point is, yes there are bad cyclists, just as there are bad motorists. Would anyone like me to list some of the stunts motorists pull, it would be a long one? In my experience, I have always tried to give cars enough room. Of course I am going to, they are bigger than me, harder than me and hurt when they hit me. Despite this attitude, they have still hit me, cut me off, thrown stuff at me etc, why?

The simple fact is, cyclists are legally allowed on the road by every law in australia. They do have the legal obligation to stay as far left as possible and no more than 2 riders abreast, again the same across all australian laws. If they can not safely stay left enough to provide you with enough room to pass, they do not legally have to give you that room, that is the law, get over it. If you do not like the law, don't yell at the cyclist trying to mind his own business and survive, he can't change the situation. No point getting on your soap box here either, will not change the situation. Write to your local politician, get a petition going or something like that, do something constructive rather than having a pointless whinge.

[gcg2503]

Brilliant post geckoGT. I applaud you.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

2) doing 30-40km/h crusising speed (which I do 90% of the time) can go very badly when joe blow isn't paying attention and just wanders across the whole path

Get a bell (like you are legally required to have) and then ring it!

[auxr]

Good & bad points both for drivers & cyclists - I don't have a large amount of time to put together a book on the subject so here the rant begins:

My only beef with the cyclist brigade is the pack mentality - what is it that when the first rays of sun peek above the horizon, a band of 15 - 20 lycra coloured riders,two sometimes three abreast go trundling off down the main road at peak hour in the morning - trucks, cars, buses all held up by these people using their right to ride on the road, and I'm stuck in the cue every morning - Jeez I hate spring sometimes :

Rant over

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by xy500

Get a bell (like you are legally required to have) and then ring it!

There is a shared path near my place that is a major connecting thoroughfare for cyclists. Como bridge for those Shire or Hurstville posters playing along at home. Crosses a major river via a disused rail bridge with the only road access to the other side taking an extra 1.5 hrs by bike (to get to same spot). I live close to one side, my parents close to the other. Use a car (15km) via clogged roads, or bike (5km). Hmmm. Easy. Most pedestrians using this do have a clue and keep left. Some (the minority) don't. Seems a pretty familiar issue... My approach is to take this section pretty slow and always use my bell (looks crap on my Mongoose VRS 3.0, and on my Cannondale road bike, but anyway) on approach to pedestrians. Most do the right thing (signed for pedestrians to always keep left), but you have to be prepared to give way to idiots to avoid collisions. Sure you can't go as fast as you want, or would like, but there are racetracks for that. Cyclist v pedestrian, car v cyclist. Same same. Tolerance of slower legitimate traffic is required.

PS. I have been pulled over for speeding on my pushie. Was double points too so lucky I got a warning. Points DO come off your car licence. Would never have done it in a car, but was trying not 'not get in cars ways...' Doing 65-70 down this hill (limit 50) I always get overtaken by cars that then do over 90 to get past me, over double lines, through a cutting with no spare space - simply because as a bike I am getting in 'their way'. All psychological.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by auxr

My only beef with the cyclist brigade is the pack mentality - what is it that when the first rays of sun peek above the horizon, a band of 15 - 20 lycra coloured riders,two sometimes three abreast

You do realise that two abreast is legal dont you? Well in Vic anyway

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by xy500

Get a bell (like you are legally required to have) and then ring it!

Get a quiet exhaust and emission compliant car, you are all legally required too.

Why do I need bell, I do not ride on pathways (they are not smooth enough and trash my wheels that are worth $2500 a pair with tyres) and cars won't hear it?

If I am on a pathway, I find a polite "excuse me, coming through" does wonders to let a pedestrian know I am coming up behind them.

[geckoGT]

My uncle was seriously injured, three of his mates were killed because some daydreaming trucky was not able to see the support van with flashing yellow lights behind them (the trucky ploughed into the van at 100+kph), on country roads during an organised race across australia.

Considering this, I find that picture disgusting and completely unnecessary to the topic of the thread. All I see there are a lot of kids that no longer have a parent!

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Brilliant post geckoGT. I applaud you.

Have to disagree.

I thought it was rude, arrogant and completly missing the point.

He is obviously a cyclist as they are, generally, rude, arrogant and fail to see the point.