Positive article about EcoBoost Falcon

[Brazen]

Carpoint Article


http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010...t-diesel-19683

The case against diesel - Ken Gratton
Why Ford is reluctant to offer a diesel option in the Falcon

Just a week separated a dash up the freeway in a BMW 330d from a bumper-to-bumper grind in a Commodore Omega. The two unrelated events led us to thinking -- not for the first time either -- that there must be some demand for a refined turbodiesel engine in either or both of Australia's two rear-wheel drive large cars.

A spokesperson for a passenger vehicle importer told the Carsales Network recently that feedback from customer surveys revealed the true appeal in diesel passenger cars. It's in the engine's flexibility and the range between fuel fills, not so much the running costs or the greater good of the environment. Prospective buyers invited to drive a diesel-powered car after driving the petrol version often purchased the diesel, since it was effortless to drive and provided strong, straight-line performance, says our source.

There's an analogy between diesel engines and automatic transmissions. Nobody blinks at paying $2000 extra for an automatic transmission on top of the purchase price of a $19,000 small car, but buyers are yet to see how paying $3000 or $4000 extra on the purchase price for a diesel engine can be justified.

At least part of the problem there is that the car companies have focused on running costs and the environment as a means of selling diesels. Buyers aren't fools. They can do the math and it doesn't add up if they have no intention to own the car beyond three or four years, but put it to them that there's $4000 worth of labour-saving in the oiler option and they would get the message.

And what cars better represent buyers who like their driving easy? Why Falcon and Commodore, of course. What other cars in this market would benefit more from that combination of muscular torque and long-range touring than the two large-car heroes of the local industry?

But then, there must be good reasons why Ford and Holden don't offer diesel power in those two cars...

We posed a number of questions to Ford's Communications Manager, Sinead McAlary, kicking off with the biggie: what are the basic arguments against diesel in the Falcon?

"It's not so much [arguments] against diesel, it's been that other things have been a more attractive option," she said. "So it's not necessarily against the diesel powertrain, but it's that we believe that EcoBoost in Falcon will be more successful and actually gives us a really strong point of difference in the market.

"We also think that with LPG and the new technologies that are coming with LPG, that will remain a really strong offering for us."

It would seem that the EcoBoost initiative for the Falcon precludes the possibility of a diesel engine being offered and if there were any running-cost advantage to a diesel, that's also a virtue of the LPI (Liquid injection LPG) fuel delivery system currently under development. Furthermore, the LPI option not only provides lower running costs similar to a diesel's, but it would come at a lower purchase price too --- something a diesel would be unlikely to match.

Hypothetically speaking, if Ford were to offer a Falcon with a turbodiesel in addition to the petrol six, turbo four and LPG six, would buyers be confused by the plethora of options?

"Potentially," answered McAlary. "If you look at what we're launching in the next 12 months -- EcoBoost and the new LPG system -- that's a lot to educate people about, in a car that they have a traditional mindset about what it looks like.

"We are launching a diesel engine in Territory, and that's where we think diesel fits best."

On that point, the 2.7-litre turbodiesel V6 planned for the Territory could transfer readily into the Falcon's engine bay, one would suppose.

"Obviously we've done a lot of work to make the diesel engine applicable for Territory, but we've done that because we believe there's a really strong customer need and want for a diesel in Territory," McAlary replied. "There isn't the same strong customer need and want -- and it's not on the radar of customers who are really asking us about what they want from Falcon in the future. A diesel powertrain is not top of people's lists for a large sedan, it is for a medium SUV."

Does the fact that buyers aren't asking for a diesel Falcon indicate a level of resistance to diesel induction technology for such reasons as dirty pumps at service stations or just a general failure to appreciate the broader benefits of diesel engines?

"I think that [buyer resistance] is less of an issue now, than it would have been a number of years ago," responded McAlary, "but again, it's just not something that's on their radar."

If it were on their radar, would a strong-performing diesel in the Falcon make the existing petrol inline six redundant -- and thereby cost jobs at the local engine plant in Geelong?

"That's not a huge concern," said McAlary, "what we have to do in every segment is look at what's going to give us the most incremental sales. If we put a diesel in Falcon, there would be some substitution -- petrol customers would buy a diesel instead of buying a petrol."

McAlary believes though, that the diesel engine in the Territory will entice new Territory customers.

"There will still be some level of substitution, but the diesel in that will bring new customers and we believe that EcoBoost for Falcon and the new LPI system will bring new customers to Falcon..."

On the subject of the EcoBoost four-cylinder, it's an engine that lends itself more to mild hybrid/auto-stop technology that may be a feature of locally manufactured cars in future. A petrol engine that will stop itself in traffic and is coupled to an automatic transmission would offer almost the same fuel economy benefits as a diesel -- and require significantly less effort and investment to develop than the same system in a diesel-powered car. It's a matter of diminishing returns with the diesels.

Diesels require pre-warming before they'll start, which is fine if you're only going to start the engine the once, drive 50km without stopping and then park the car for the day. But constant stopping and starting diesels in traffic is a challenge. Some companies have overcome the problem, but there are also NVH issues to resolve, since the high-compression diesel engine is far from seamless when it restarts as the light changes to green. For the small difference in fuel consumption between a petrol four-cylinder with auto-stop and a diesel with the same technology, most buyers would prefer the extra refinement of the petrol engine so equipped.

"The new EcoBoost engine that we're bringing in is at the cutting edge of Ford development and is getting a lot of work done on it overseas," said McAlary.

"The whole EcoBoost technology is a key pillar as part of Ford's sustainability strategy, so we do think that that gives us a really good opportunity for future applications, whatever they may be."

By implication then, the EcoBoost has a head start on diesel engines when it comes to meeting future environmental needs, which will be forthcoming in this country. A further advantage to the EcoBoost over a diesel is that it will cost Ford less to import, since diesel engines are expensive to develop and build. And if a diesel were to add at least $3000 to the purchase price of a Falcon XT -- look at the price of an LPG-equipped Falcon after government rebates -- it's bound to be a hard sell.

Overcoming market perceptions that a diesel Falcon would have to be the budget-end XT model would require some major marketing footwork on Ford's part, but McAlary doesn't see a hypothetical diesel being limited to the entry-level Falcon anyway and it certainly wouldn't be constrained by market perceptions necessarily.

"Our mix for Falcon is a very high mix," she said. "We sell much more of our G Series and XR range than the XT, so within the price bracket for large cars, we're actually selling what we term quite a rich mix of our vehicles -- far more than we were before FG."

McAlary also disputed that 'diesel' and 'repmobile' go together exclusively.

"You look at diesel in Mondeo, it's seen as a premium engine. We haven't done the in-depth study that would be required to see where a diesel would fit in the Falcon range and what the customer type would be, so I can't be too definitive on that, because we haven't looked into that... there hasn't been an ask for it across the board."

What Ford is doing with EcoBoost and LPI in the Falcon is tantamount to killing one bird with two stones -- but it makes sense in the context of Falcon. If you want the low running costs of a diesel, you can buy an LPI-equipped Falcon. If the environment is of more concern, go for the EcoBoost. Depending on your daily driving regime, either engine could suit and there may well be considerable overlap.

Ford hasn't revealed pricing yet, but either the EcoBoost or the LPI alternatives will likely provide you a car at a lower purchase price too, against a diesel-powered Falcon.

Is there a danger though, as some have suggested, that the EcoBoost will lack power? Will the EcoBoost Falcon be a car for the city and suburbs only? Forget towing your 20-footer or the skiboat with it? Without Ford publishing power and torque figures for the engine in the Falcon application, there's also the other possibility -- that it may make the inline six redundant.

"We obviously think [EcoBoost] will be a point of difference," said McAlary. "We wouldn't be doing it if was going to be exactly the same. We obviously wouldn't be doing it if we didn't think it would power the car appropriately."

"We're not limiting it to just that city sort of driving, we think it will have enough power and torque for what most people need. It will be good for the average Falcon customer.

"It's interesting, I think that's where the challenge is going to be for us, educating people about it -- because you have your large, rear-wheel drive loyalists and traditionalists who will never consider anything else and then you have those others who don't really mind what type of engine it is, as long as it does what they need it to do.

"We have to educate the second group about the advantages and we also have to educate the first group. Whether we'd ever sway the first group into it remains to be seen. The proof will be in the pudding basically, when people get to drive it."

If Ford has got it right then, the EcoBoost Falcon should silence critics out there demanding a diesel for the big car.

Ford looks to be on the right track with EcoBoost Falcon, I have been sceptical of lofty sales targets but it does sound like a ripper package.

[phillyc]

Good find Brazen! Actually a well balanced argument / article.

[1TUFFUTE]

yes for a change t was a pleasure to read an article that didnt seem to rake ford across the coals dispite the superior product....looks promising indead.

[banarcus]

Time will tell whether it will live up expectations.

[FG XR]

would be good to offer diesel in a falcon one would think? especially in a ute?

good article none the less

[Chopped]

I was skeptical of the 4cyl idea to begin with.
The more I read the more I think I have nothing to worry about.

[turbo al]

It will have to be good though, ....a four cylinder??? Really??? Thats for motorbikes!
Six with a turbo works! Not so much on the fuel economy though!!
Interesting article however.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Coyote V8

would be good to offer diesel in a falcon one would think? especially in a ute?

good article none the less

I agree completely. A diesel falcon ute would do very well. Particularly if you added RTV style raised suspension. Could sell a few hundred per month alone. Especially for buyers who want the economy of diesel some extra ground clearance but don't want to sacrifice comfort & refinement by going to a Hilux/Navara etc.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

yes for a change t was a pleasure to read an article that didnt seem to rake ford across the coals dispite the superior product....looks promising indead.

Yeah it was. More options for consumers and fleets to look at is important and will help to profitably grow the business.

An i4T with 175kW and 320Nm from 2,000rpm added to a DSG transmission will move a 1600kg FG along nicely. Certainly enough for the non-enthusiast and quicker than a 3.0L SIDI will move the VE.

Excellent economy of a combined high 7s or low 8s will ensure attention, then add further tech like EPAS, Stop-Start and the numbers will look even better down the track.

[Joe5619]

1st Question..What is EPAS?
2nd Question.. Is start-start tech coming with the I4T?? This part is news for me..

[mik]

yep the eco boost is being built with torque in mind from the get go, with the stop start tech down the track it will have to be durable too, it should be should be a winner imo.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

1st Question..What is EPAS?
2nd Question.. Is start-start tech coming with the I4T?? This part is news for me..

EPAS is Electric Power Assisted Steering. This replaces a conventional hydraulic setup, creates a bit more space in the engine bay and reduces parasitic losses. Essentially a gain of 0.3L/100km economy. Some systems are horrible. eg Honda. Some excellent. eg Ford Fiesta, Prius, Mazda 2.

EPAS isn't coming straight away. But is on the Coyote Mustang. So, it will come. In fact I thought it was going to happen with the latest update. My radar was wrong on that one...

Stop-start isn't coming straight up. But read the comments about the ease of adding to a petrol opposed to a diesel by Macalarly when referring to 'future applications' in the article.

Both of these 'techs' are goals for One-Ford.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by mik

yep the eco boost is being built with torque in mind from the get go, with the stop start tech down the track it will have to be durable too, it should be should be a winner imo.

I'd expect it to use the Mazda tech for it too. Basically there system uses a cam sensor to determine which piston is closest to TDC. The motor is then advanced into TDC. Fuel is added and spark. The motor then starts without overtaxing the starter on a regular basis. It requires DI, but Eco-boost has that...

IIRC Eco-netic Focus has diesel engine and Stop-Start tech. They aren't mutually exclusive, just perhaps not as refined together as a petrol combination would be.

Eco-boost will also allow for flex fuel E85 use too. More ethanol, crank the boost add timing and the consumption difference is reduced for the output. Much better than a 3.0L SIDI will ever be.

[Falc'man]

A good read. Thanks Brazen.

Wow. Look at the diversity under the bonnet of the 2011 Falcon!

Ecoboost 4, ~180kW 360Nm.
LPG 6, ~195kW ~390Nm.

Petrol NA 6, 195kW 391Nm.

Petrol Turbo 6, 270kW 533Nm.
Petrol Turbo 6, 310kW 565Nm.

Supercharged V8, 300+kw 550+Nm.
Supercharged V8, 330+kW ~600Nm.

Adding to that ZF across the board is just class, but to have the DCT behind the EB4 would be the real winner for buyers. Having instant off-idle torque and crisper, smoother than ZF shifts would be a pleasure to drive, especially where average speeds aren't that high.

For a company that's supposed to survive in a very competitive market - which is as tiny as it is - it's remarkable they can offer so much.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by phillyc

I agree completely. A diesel falcon ute would do very well. Particularly if you added RTV style raised suspension. Could sell a few hundred per month alone. Especially for buyers who want the economy of diesel some extra ground clearance but don't want to sacrifice comfort & refinement by going to a Hilux/Navara etc.

Blam.

Only thing is it would compete directly with the Ranger.

[jpd80]

Ford's credentials for picking diesel markets is in the crapper, they missed the diesel Territory by years
and were so very slow to introduce diesel Focus and Mondeo but completely missed the appeal of
Econetic diesels in the market place until recently. Diesel Falcon Ute would probably
be preferred by quite a few over an LILPG option....

I'd say Ford has totally blinded itself to the Falcon diesel market by continuing
to puddle with LILPG (mostly cabs) and Ecoboost I-4 (US pressure),
people don't buy V6 diesel vehicles because they are cheap to run - that's the I-4 TDCI.

No, V6 diesel ownership is a status symbol and a state of mind...

[XRtowcar]

Is the Falcon getting the 2 litre ecoboost?
Everytime i see it mentioned it dosen't seem to anywhere enough power or torque.
I remember figures of 200+ k'ws.
Mondeo only makes 149k'ws.

[Road_Warrior]

175 killer wasps but don't forget there will be a bit of a weight saving with the all alloy I4T compared to the iron block I6 so it shouldn't be too bad.

[bmorris]

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

Is the Falcon getting the 2 litre ecoboost?
Everytime i see it mentioned it dosen't seem to anywhere enough power or torque.
I remember figures of 200+ k'ws.
Mondeo only makes 149k'ws.

If the I4T can make 175kw then it will be fine for the every day driver. Those that purchase a model with that engine in it will be doing so for fuel eco, not power anyway.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by phillyc

I agree completely. A diesel falcon ute would do very well. Particularly if you added RTV style raised suspension. Could sell a few hundred per month alone. Especially for buyers who want the economy of diesel some extra ground clearance but don't want to sacrifice comfort & refinement by going to a Hilux/Navara etc.

I would have one in a flash. I currently run one of the last BF2 Egas RTV's. All I can say about the current Egas system is thank god it is going to be pensioned off. I had the choice of a ML 4x4 Triton (or similar) or the RTV at the time. I went for the RTV mainly based on comfort as I commute to the farm. When time to upgrade I guess I will have to go to a Triton/hilux type vehicle. If there was a diesel RTV I would have one in a flash.

[chevypower]

The 3.5L V6 EcoBoost is supposed to put out 500HP+ in the Raptor R for the next Baja race, so if you take a 2L version with the same power/litre, you're looking at some 285HP/213kw. So I would say the 2.0EB is definitely capable of 175kw+, with a bucket load of low-end torque to go with it.

[dannyhilton]

What's with all the pro Ford media about the last few weeks? Have Ford done a Holden and payed some money on the side!? Very good article, and I hope they are right, I for one want EcoBoost to work.