Will Holden still take a chance with the Volt?

[kiwimark]

Given that it is failing in the US (article below) will Holden still bring it over this way for it to do the same locally?? or is it too late in that decision path..

Ford must be smiling with this as why dip your finger in battery acid when your biggest competitor is being made to by it's new owners (US gov)


Low demand forces GM to suspend Volt production
11:00 AM Tuesday Mar 6, 2012
General Motors is suspending production of its Chevrolet Volt electric car for five weeks in hopes of reducing inventory to meet lower-than-expected demand.

A GM spokesman said that the company will shut down production of the Volt from March 19 until April 23.

Spokesman Chris Lee says that GM is trying to maintain proper inventory while matching production to demand.

Chevrolet sold 1,023 Volts last month. It sold 7,671 last year, below its original goal of 10,000 cars.

It will be sold in New Zealand as the Holden Volt.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/n...ectid=10790143

[Burnout]

Will GM-H chance it? Nope!

[2011G6E]

Too many questions about it...
How long does the battery pack last? What does it cost to replace? Is there any chance of a "Tesla-type" error with the system which has revealed itself lately with the Tesla sports car where, if you dare let the car go completely dead, such as sitting in your shed while you go away for a holiday and don't leave it on charge, that it will be completely immobile and need expensive repairs? What will the resale be like given that no one wants to talk about battery pack life and costs? How will the carbon tax bite on using it on your home electricity?

Good idea for a city-only car, but for the rest of us, an impractical dream that we can only see the minus's with, not the plus's i'm afraid...

[burnz]

Originally Posted by kiwimark

Given that it is failing in the US (article below) will Holden still bring it over this way for it to do the same locally?? or is it too late in that decision path..

Ford must be smiling with this as why dip your finger in battery acid when your biggest competitor is being made to by it's new owners (US gov)


Low demand forces GM to suspend Volt production
11:00 AM Tuesday Mar 6, 2012
General Motors is suspending production of its Chevrolet Volt electric car for five weeks in hopes of reducing inventory to meet lower-than-expected demand.

A GM spokesman said that the company will shut down production of the Volt from March 19 until April 23.

Spokesman Chris Lee says that GM is trying to maintain proper inventory while matching production to demand.

Chevrolet sold 1,023 Volts last month. It sold 7,671 last year, below its original goal of 10,000 cars.

It will be sold in New Zealand as the Holden Volt.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/n...ectid=10790143

is that a retorical question?

looks like holden is testing market demand, as in new zealand..

[jpd80]

I'd hate to be the bloke who buys one, runs it for five years and then it goes bang one day
and sits in the corner like a buggered vacuum cleaner cause no one can fix it...

[Bossxr8]

The price will kill it anyway. They have mentioned as much as 60k, which is extreme for what is essentially an electric Cruze.

Holden want to sell it to prove how environmentally conscious they are, and how high tech they are. As with all hybrids its more of a case of seeing to be green rather than actually doing the slightest thing to save the environment.

I'd be suprised if they sold in double figures.

[burnz]

GM have been making diesel electric loco's for allmost a century...
now they make a petrol electric cars, and it's an automatic fail.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

GM have been making diesel electric loco's for allmost a century...
now they make a petrol electric cars, and it's an automatic fail.

In the US, the EV Focus will sell at around $40,000 before rebate,
the same price as Volt yet nary a bad word is uttered about the Ford..

Or maybe thta's because there's also a plug in hybrid Focus coming too...

Either way, I'm unconvinced that a $66,000 vehicle will save me more
money than say a TDCI Focus titanium over 5-10 years of ownership..

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In the US, the EV Focus will sell at around $40,000 before rebate,
the same price as Volt yet nary a bad word is uttered about the Ford..

Or maybe thta's because there's also a plug in hybrid Focus coming too...

Either way, I'm unconvinced that a $66,000 vehicle will save me more
money than say a TDCI Focus titanium over 5-10 years of ownership..

you must remember that the petrol motor turns an alternator same as a locomotive,
that supplies the traction motors.

the use of batterys is suplimental. so to speak..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

the use of batterys is suplimental. so to speak..

The use of a battery is what makes it $66,000

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In the US, the EV Focus will sell at around $40,000 before rebate,
the same price as Volt yet nary a bad word is uttered about the Ford..

Or maybe thta's because there's also a plug in hybrid Focus coming too...

Either way, I'm unconvinced that a $66,000 vehicle will save me more
money than say a TDCI Focus titanium over 5-10 years of ownership..

Is that PHEV Focus the C-Max Energi or a not-yet-announced Focus Energi? Remember that idea you had on BON, a 1.0 EB Energi? THAT I'd buy!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Is that PHEV Focus the C-Max Energi or a not-yet-announced Focus Energi? Remember that idea you had on BON, a 1.0 EB Energi? THAT I'd buy!

Yeah, the EV Focus is US$40K, very similar to Volt's price, both attract a US govt rebate of $7,500
Focus Energi is the Plug In Hybrid and will use Lithium Ion batterires sourced in house.
This time Ford has thrown out 480 new patents to stop Toyota claim jumping their technology..

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yeah, the EV Focus is US$40K, very similar to Volt's price, both attract a US govt rebate of $7,500
Focus Energi is the Plug In Hybrid and will use Lithium Ion batterires sourced in house.
This time Ford has thrown out 480 new patents to stop Toyota claim jumping their technology..

I don't remember Ford announcing a Focus Energi? Or is this inside info? ;)

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by burnz

GM have been making diesel electric loco's for allmost a century...
now they make a petrol electric cars, and it's an automatic fail.

yep you are right

Diesel Division of General Motors of Canada Ltd

they had to set up that name due to Canada having a rule that to use the loco's part had to built there

although they don't own it anymore

http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Gener...iesel_Division

Jason

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

I don't remember Ford announcing a Focus Energi? Or is this inside info? ;)

A Plug in Hybrid is due out later this year to complement the EV but all the attention is on Escape and C-Max.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

yep you are right

Diesel Division of General Motors of Canada Ltd

they had to set up that name due to Canada having a rule that to use the loco's part had to built there

although they don't own it anymore

http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Gener...iesel_Division

Jason

yep renamed EMD electro motive diesel and they still use the 2 stroke's
http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/loco_index.jsp

[tranquilized]

I'm actually quite disappointed in how much of a failure the Volt appears to have been so far. Its concept it genius - generations ahead of anything Toyota or Honda produce.

It has a range of 550km, official EU fuel economy figure of 1.2L/100km, but has the ability to use none - Jay Leno has travelled more than 16,000km in a Volt around LA in one year without putting a single litre of petrol in the car. So yeah, great in concept...

Bob Lutz talks about the Volt a lot in his book. He takes credit for its creation in about 2005. He's far from an environmentalist - his motivation was seeing what the Prius did for Toyota's reputation. He wanted some of that action for GM, and the company knew from the outset that it wasn't going to be a profitable car in its own right. It was to be a "technology demonstrator" project, to shine a friendlier light on GM as a whole among the mainstream press and consumer. I really would like to see it succeed, because I love what its theoretically capable of doing.

I think the electric car haters miss the bigger picture - these cars don’t appeal to enthusiasts, they aren't meant to. They are designed as A to B transport for the mass market - most of which is concentrated in large cities, so their shortcomings in country areas is irrelevant. And yes, their environmental impact is misrepresented and misunderstood in the mainstream, but todays cars are only a bridge technology. The environmental impact and oil dependancy of driving needs to be reduced, and while todays electric cars don’t achieve that, often actually worse than ICE cars, they represent the desire, and hopefully the ability in the future, to achieve the changes necessary.

Oil is going to get insanely expensive real soon, the less we rely on it for day to day transport the better. We need cars like the Volt.

But yes, it appears GM have stuffed it... again...

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I'm actually quite disappointed in how much of a failure the Volt appears to have been so far. Its concept it genius - generations ahead of anything Toyota or Honda produce.

It has a range of 550km, official EU fuel economy figure of 1.2L/100km, but has the ability to use none - Jay Leno has travelled more than 16,000km in a Volt around LA in one year without putting a single litre of petrol in the car. So yeah, great in concept...

Bob Lutz talks about the Volt a lot in his book. He takes credit for its creation in about 2005. He's far from an environmentalist - his motivation was seeing what the Prius did for Toyota's reputation. He wanted some of that action for GM, and the company knew from the outset that it wasn't going to be a profitable car in its own right. It was to be a "technology demonstrator" project, to shine a friendlier light on GM as a whole among the mainstream press and consumer. I really would like to see it succeed, because I love what its theoretically capable of doing.

I think the electric car haters miss the bigger picture - these cars don’t appeal to enthusiasts, they aren't meant to. They are designed as A to B transport for the mass market - most of which is concentrated in large cities, so their shortcomings in country areas is irrelevant. And yes, their environmental impact is misrepresented and misunderstood in the mainstream, but todays cars are only a bridge technology. The environmental impact and oil dependancy of driving needs to be reduced, and while todays electric cars don’t achieve that, often actually worse than ICE cars, they represent the desire, and hopefully the ability in the future, to achieve the changes necessary.

Oil is going to get insanely expensive real soon, the less we rely on it for day to day transport the better. We need cars like the Volt.

But yes, it appears GM have stuffed it... again...

Perfectly written mate!

[Brazen]

It's a niche car which probably suits the Cadillac nameplate rather than Chevy. In the end it's an image maker - it was never supposed to be a volume player but it still sold over a 1000 last month. I'm betting Holden can't wait to import it just for the enviro cred and positive press this thing will generate.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It's a niche car which probably suits the Cadillac nameplate rather than Chevy. In the end it's an image maker - it was never supposed to be a volume player but it still sold over a 1000 last month. I'm betting Holden can't wait to import it just for the enviro cred and positive press this thing will generate.

........ in a US market that sold 1,100,000 in light vehicles locally in February and over 200,000 GM products makes the 1,000 extremely niche!~

In comparison the 'older' Prius sold over 20,000 in Feb ..........

[bigsta]

Holden are 100% releasing it later in the year, to get over the fear factor they should offer a 10 year warranty.

The volt is a genius of a car and should not be confused with the POS from toyota, mitsabushi or honda, in the volt you have a choice you can run it as a petrol car and drive it accross the country at 1.2L/100 or charge it up in 30 mins and get 100kms odd range until the petrol motor kicks in and as we know most ppl dont do that much in a day anyway.

[jpd80]

Save your money and buy a $26,000 diesel Cruze, the interest you won't
be paying on the additional $40,000 will keep you in fuel for years.

The same car in the USA is sold for $40,000 but comes with a US government subsidy of $7,500,
So Aussie buyers will pay double - that sucks big time, GM can do better but they want to price gouge...

[BP'93]

Holden have stated they don't expect big numbers for the Volt anyway. Around 300-500 a month, give or take some cars.

Really depends on Holden's advertising ;)

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It's a niche car which probably suits the Cadillac nameplate rather than Chevy. In the end it's an image maker - it was never supposed to be a volume player but it still sold over a 1000 last month. I'm betting Holden can't wait to import it just for the enviro cred and positive press this thing will generate.

There's those magic words again that pop up in every thread on every forum about limited and expensive hybrid and electric cars..."it's a niche car", and "never supposed to be a volume player". Then someone will usually follow with a comment about "They are there to get people used to the idea" or "the first ones will be expensive".

No...that logic doesn't work. A car is either for everyone, or no one. If you have the dough, you can use a 911 Porsche as a daily driver. You can take a Bugatti Veyron down to the shops. You can (and people out here do) buy a new top of the line FPV Falcon or HSV Commodore and fit a bullbar to it and proceed to cover it in dust and dirt.

Why build cars that are limited, hoping that people will overlook all the shortcomings and spend a huge amount of money on one and then spend their lives ignoring the limitations? Why not wait until you can slap one down in the showroom that had a 600km range, carries five adults and luggage in comfort, costs the same as a normal petrol car, and doesn't place any real restrictions on your driving life?
That will get people everywhere buying them, not a select few trendy city folk...

[burnz]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

There's those magic words again that pop up in every thread on every forum about limited and expensive hybrid and electric cars..."it's a niche car", and "never supposed to be a volume player". Then someone will usually follow with a comment about "They are there to get people used to the idea" or "the first ones will be expensive".

No...that logic doesn't work. A car is either for everyone, or no one. If you have the dough, you can use a 911 Porsche as a daily driver. You can take a Bugatti Veyron down to the shops. You can (and people out here do) buy a new top of the line FPV Falcon or HSV Commodore and fit a bullbar to it and proceed to cover it in dust and dirt.

Why build cars that are limited, hoping that people will overlook all the shortcomings and spend a huge amount of money on one and then spend their lives ignoring the limitations? Why not wait until you can slap one down in the showroom that had a 600km range, carries five adults and luggage in comfort, costs the same as a normal petrol car, and doesn't place any real restrictions on your driving life?
That will get people everywhere buying them, not a select few trendy city folk...

well around a 1,000k distance.
will seat five in comfort with luggage.
sell for a price unknown at this time.......it will be dearer than a commodore.
can be driven anywhere they sell petrol or have power or both..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BP'93

Holden have stated they don't expect big numbers for the Volt anyway. Around 300-500 a month, give or take some cars.

Really depends on Holden's advertising ;)

They won't be expecting those sort of numbers, the Prius doesn't even sell half that and the Volt will be 20k more expensive.

I reckon they will be lucky if it sells more than 50 a month.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

There's those magic words again that pop up in every thread on every forum about limited and expensive hybrid and electric cars..."it's a niche car", and "never supposed to be a volume player". Then someone will usually follow with a comment about "They are there to get people used to the idea" or "the first ones will be expensive".

No...that logic doesn't work. A car is either for everyone, or no one. If you have the dough, you can use a 911 Porsche as a daily driver. You can take a Bugatti Veyron down to the shops. You can (and people out here do) buy a new top of the line FPV Falcon or HSV Commodore and fit a bullbar to it and proceed to cover it in dust and dirt.

Why build cars that are limited, hoping that people will overlook all the shortcomings and spend a huge amount of money on one and then spend their lives ignoring the limitations? Why not wait until you can slap one down in the showroom that had a 600km range, carries five adults and luggage in comfort, costs the same as a normal petrol car, and doesn't place any real restrictions on your driving life?
That will get people everywhere buying them, not a select few trendy city folk...

Many vehicles are image makers, it changes and alter perceptions of brands meaning you can charge more for your vehicles. It's like when Ford fans laugh at the HSV W427 as its so expensive yet question how HSV outsell FPV 3 to 1 with higher asking prices... Some people get that motor vehicle purchases are aspirational and some people don't.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

There's those magic words again that pop up in every thread on every forum about limited and expensive hybrid and electric cars..."it's a niche car", and "never supposed to be a volume player". Then someone will usually follow with a comment about "They are there to get people used to the idea" or "the first ones will be expensive".

No...that logic doesn't work. A car is either for everyone, or no one. If you have the dough, you can use a 911 Porsche as a daily driver. You can take a Bugatti Veyron down to the shops. You can (and people out here do) buy a new top of the line FPV Falcon or HSV Commodore and fit a bullbar to it and proceed to cover it in dust and dirt.

Actually, the logic is 100% sound.

"A car is either for everyone, or no one"



Thats hilarious! But what the hell are you talking about? There isn't a single car on the market that is for everyone.

Porsche 911 and Bugatti Veyrons are very much niche cars - the performance niche. They could be used for every day chores but they wouldn't be very good at it.

FPV's and HSV's are also niche cars. Sure, fit a bullbar and go bush bashing, but lack of ground clearence means they wouldn't be very good at it.

The Volt is a niche car - it could be driven over long country distances, but it wouldn't be very good at it as you'd only be running on petrol, bypassing its main purpose.

Delivery vans cant really be used on race tracks
Super cars cant really be used to go off roading
Electric cars cant really be used for country driving.

Wheres the problem?

People buy the car that suits their needs. About 50% of Australias population live in the capital cities, so I'd say the market a car like the Volt appeals to would be larger than any other single niche.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Why build cars that are limited, hoping that people will overlook all the shortcomings and spend a huge amount of money on one and then spend their lives ignoring the limitations? Why not wait until you can slap one down in the showroom that had a 600km range, carries five adults and luggage in comfort, costs the same as a normal petrol car, and doesn't place any real restrictions on your driving life?
That will get people everywhere buying them, not a select few trendy city folk...

Ok this part is even more ludicrous... So the manufactures are to toil away behind closed doors until they have the product that will change an entire culture overnight, and immediately sell it at comparable prices?

When new technology is introduced, it is without fail, considerably more expensive than the old. Why didn't consumer electronics manufacturers just hold off introducing flat screen tv's until they could sell them at the same price as the old CRT's? Well, they couldn't have - its all about supply, demand, and economies of scale. Basic high school ecnonomics. As it is with electric cars.

Electric cars will get better and cheaper as time goes on only because of the cashed up environmentalists and early adopters who buy the early examples and spur further development. If you've discovered methods to circumvent this tried and tested process that the world has seen over and over throughout all time, you should sell your ideas and become extremely wealthy!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

well around a 1,000k distance.
will seat five in comfort with luggage.
sell for a price unknown at this time.......

I know you have connections at Holden, maybe you can verify the validity of this statement:

LINK
Holden is yet to announce the price publicly but has told its dealer network the vehicle will have a recommended retail price of $59,990 before on-road and dealer costs, which will likely to equate to a total of $66,000 drive-away when it goes on sale late this year.

If Volt is $66,000 drive away, don't expect too many orders...

[BHDOGS]

when it gets released joshua dowling will **** his pants and heres a picture i found of joshua after his first volt test drive