Cam grind, rockers and extractors for 302?

[mcfly94]

Hey guys over xmas i plan to upgrade the cam, extractors and diff in the LTD.

Looking at advice on best way to go.
Atm im thinking going with a stock low km lsd with 3.9 gears as i dont think im going to power levels that will require a locker or true trac centre.

Headers im a bit lost as there a so many options!
First should i go tuned or tri-y. Given this will always be streeted and 6000rpm probably going to be the limit of this thing, and i am chasing a quick off line car.

Cats im looking at magnaflow 2.5 100 cells as ive just done a straight through mandrel twin 2.5 system.

And now cam ive looked at much info pointing out comp cams xe270 and xe276, but i jumped on lunati's website and found something slightly bigger id like to run, dont know if this possible.
(End plans being 347 stroker and alloy heads)
10310302LK
Specs are
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 285/285
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 235/235
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .540/.540
LSA/ICL: 108/104
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 2500-6000

Where i get lost is whats my limits on lift (PTV), what rockers do i go with (ratio, size, adjustable etcc?), how to measure what size push rods ill need.

Thanks in advance for help guys!

[BOTTLEDUP]

You will struggle to fit that cam in with stock pistons, P2V will be your issue. And unless you are planning on running a 3500+ stall it will disappoint you. That cam is not a good match to your application.

While it might seem like an economical option to buy 1 cam now 'to suit a 347 later' but in reality you would be much better off choosing a cam to match the current application.

[mcfly94]

Originally Posted by BOTTLEDUP

You will struggle to fit that cam in with stock pistons, P2V will be your issue. And unless you are planning on running a 3500+ stall it will disappoint you. That cam is not a good match to your application.

While it might seem like an economical option to buy 1 cam now 'to suit a 347 later' but in reality you would be much better off choosing a cam to match the current application.

Was planning on a stall around there
Whats going to the biggest option for me?

[mcfly94]

Or even recommend someone to speak to?

[BOTTLEDUP]

The XE276 will fit without P2V issues, though to really make use of it in a 5.0L you'll need a minimum of a 3000 stall. Another to consider would be the Lunati Voodoo series of hydraulic rollers, in particular the 20350711. You will need to run 1.6 rockers with this cam & a proper dual valve spring due to its aggressive ramps.

[pete05]

Rather than start a new thread If its ok I will just ask here seem as its the same topic, how aggressive is the xe270 and 276 for a street car, mine is a manual and have been thinking of a cam, once you convert over to these cams do they make the 5.0 really heavy on fuel?

[BOTTLEDUP]

With a retune of the ECU they're pretty good, if driven appropriately. The XE270HR-14 in particular is very good, and cruises like a stock cam or better.

[mcfly94]

Just to pick your brain a bit more @bottledup
what sort of roller rocker am i looking for to suit gt40p's? and would i be going adjustable? and then if i am would i need heavy duty push rods? (different or same length)
Thanks

[BOTTLEDUP]

Regarding roller rockers, it will mostly depend on what your future plans are regarding heads. Using a bolt on non-adjustable rocker such as Crane, YT Street Terras or Scorpion would be the simplest option. If you planned on using AFR 165 or 185 heads in the future then they'll also fit these (the YTs will need some new shafts & spacers to work, which may or may not be available). However there is a limit to how much valve lift & spring pressure the bolt on rockers can handle reliably. Once valve lift exceeds 0.550" and over 350lb of spring pressure you'd be better off looking at a stud or shaft mount rocker. Setting up GT40Ps for those is not worth the $$$ though.

[mcfly94]

oh no worries, i think ill go for the non adjustable bolt ons for now.
Excuse my lack of knowledge, but the factory rockers use 5/15, 3/8, 7/16??

[BOTTLEDUP]

5/16" bolt on rockers

[BOTTLEDUP]

If it was me, I'd probably hold off buying rockers and camshaft to suit the 302, put that money towards your alloy heads. I would use a set of 190 or 205cc Trickflow 11Rs with an appropriate manifold, P2V will not be an issue with the stock camshaft & 302 bottom end...

[pete05]

What size cam shaft becomes a issue with the 11R on a stock bottom end, I thought the trickflow heads needed pistons to suit the heads. Are the trickflow heads much better than AFR?

[pete05]

Mcfly if you want bolt ons I found these on ebay. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/400815872...84.m1423.l2661

[BOTTLEDUP]

The 11R head has even more P2V clearance than the original Twisted Wedge, 11° vs 15° valve angle. While you are correct large duration cams will require different valve reliefs in the pistons due to the rotated valve locations engine builders in the US ate getting away with cams in the mid-high 220° @0.050" on stock pistons with no issues.

[pete05]

Just looking at the 11r on summit as they are on sale at the moment, would you order the 56 or 66cc combustion chambers I am not sure what the stock heads are and I was thinking of using the 190 heads

[BOTTLEDUP]

56cc chambers most definitely. The 190cc 'street' head is pretty well priced atm.

[CRAIGAU3220]

Originally Posted by BOTTLEDUP

56cc chambers most definitely. The 190cc 'street' head is pretty well priced atm.

Hmm, Would the 56cc chamber be alittle too much compression with stock 220 cam and some Raptor Boost?

[BOTTLEDUP]

Craig with the 56cc chamber I get just on 10:1, which you might get away with depending on boost levels. Of course the 11R has a much better chsmber design and the alloy head is less prone to detonation, though the little Raptor may struggle to keep up!

[CRAIGAU3220]

Hey Dave, Thanks for your worldly advice........Yeah my stab in the dark was thinking it would be close to 10:1

Do think from time to time me needs some alloys and Manifold to keep the interest going, then spotted your comment about the 11R's me got the

With the last tune the Raptor was pushing just over 10psi, so with TFS-R Intake and some 190 11R's Boost will come down some?.....Guess there be only one way to find out.

Cheers, Craig.

[mcfly94]

Well ive been doing thinking about what i want to do.
Going to just stick with a mild cam and diff gears after i do the headers and cats, do the heads at a bit later date, the car performs pretty well as is and im probably rushing to far in and wanting to do everything at once, after all is my first v8! besides i want to put money into the interior of the car which still needs doing.
But compared to mums 200kw xr8 and her gear ratio, the ltd just feels like it some stuff to wake it up!

Just to clarify some things @bottledup, with the voodoo 20350711 grind, are 1.6 bolt on rockers still going to do the job or is the lift on the exhaust a tad high? And what sort of stall would this grind require, 3000rpm be suffice?.

Excuse the ebay link, but good for reference and price ideas.
But im looking at a set of these rockers which are 1.6 and 5/16" bolt ons.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ford-Wind...item4182a1bda6

Also would there be any benefit for searching for a cheap tickford 220 TB, or am i wasting my time?

[FTW-302]

No such thing as a cheap Tickford 70mm T/B

[mcfly94]

Well au2ghia got his for $100
A guy on ozfalcon was selling a complete topend of a 220kw
for $500 in september.
And i seem to always score things cheap haha, for example a brand new electric blue momo wheel for $200.
So say i found one cheap would it be worth it?

[FTE-063]

Originally Posted by mcfly94

Well au2ghia got his for $100

sure did mcfly94 and sold it for $200 it's just a matter of looking in ebay & gumtree everday until one pops up

cheers Dean

[bluestripes]

Briefly read the post and there is great knowledge being shared.

My advice / experiance is - just build your 347... And regardless if it takes you 6 months or even 12 month .., just don't worry because you have a good car and as time goes on .. The AU will be harder and harder to get. Therefore ... Build the best engine you can ... Then work out from there. If you go this way - then you won't need 3:91 gears ... Because your engine will be powerful enough. And you won't want tri y pipes .. Your will want PM4001 tuned and the 70mm TB will be way to small.

Finally - I know everyone holds the 220kw 302 in high esteem on this forum .. And rightly so for it was a great performer ... Though the engine was built 14yrs ago now ... And the truth be know ... The 6 cylinder FG are putting out more power then the factory 302. Therefore ... build the 347, go aftermarket.... And increase your Kw 100 plus !!

[BOTTLEDUP]

Originally Posted by mcfly94

Well ive been doing thinking about what i want to do.
Going to just stick with a mild cam and diff gears after i do the headers and cats, do the heads at a bit later date, the car performs pretty well as is and im probably rushing to far in and wanting to do everything at once, after all is my first v8! besides i want to put money into the interior of the car which still needs doing.
But compared to mums 200kw xr8 and her gear ratio, the ltd just feels like it some stuff to wake it up!

Just to clarify some things @bottledup, with the voodoo 20350711 grind, are 1.6 bolt on rockers still going to do the job or is the lift on the exhaust a tad high? And what sort of stall would this grind require, 3000rpm be suffice?.

Excuse the ebay link, but good for reference and price ideas.
But im looking at a set of these rockers which are 1.6 and 5/16" bolt ons.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ford-Wind...item4182a1bda6

Also would there be any benefit for searching for a cheap tickford 220 TB, or am i wasting my time?

The rockers would be ok but to run that cam you'll need a better valve spring than what is available as a drop in replacement for the GT40P heads. It really needs a dual spring to control its aggressive lobe profiles.

[bluestripes]

Originally Posted by BOTTLEDUP

The rockers would be ok but to run that cam you'll need a better valve spring than what is available as a drop in replacement for the GT40P heads. It really needs a dual spring to control its aggressive lobe profiles.

Is that another way of saying you need new heads to run that cam ?

If that's the case .., your best off looking at the TFS top end kits and piece match the parts to your chosen specs. You will also need to add lifters onto that list.

But I still think building a 347 is the smarter way.

[mcfly94]

So ill need custom springs or machine work done on the gt40p's?

[mcfly94]

Did a bit of research and think i found my answer, yes.
Heads need machining; specifically valve guide bosses, and then valve seals in smaller diameter need to be used.
Dave, i take it this is why you recommended me to spend my cash on heads and manifold first. I understand why now, Gt40's not worth having money spent on them, cant achieve what i want without doing something to the heads, so may aswell go alloy heads!

[BOTTLEDUP]

Originally Posted by mcfly94

Dave, i take it this is why you recommended me to spend my cash on heads and manifold first. I understand why now, Gt40's not worth having money spent on them, cant achieve what i want without doing something to the heads, so may aswell go alloy heads!

Spot on.

Pumping money into the P heads really isn't worthwhile imo. I would look at headers & cats next, a ratio swap is also the most effective bang for buck way to improve acceleration & response.