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The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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G'day all..The other day I was talking to a former teacher who joined the RAAF in the mid 1990's and who recently retired. We got talking about Australia's position on the purchase of it's front line jets. There's been a lot of debate going on over our commitment to buying around 70 or so F-35 Lightning ll's to replace the FA 18 Legacy Hornets .
Due to a mass of problems the RAAF , a few years back bought 24 of the updated Boeing built FA 18 F Superhornets as a stop gap fighter to fill in the delays The retired RAAF/ former workmate teacher was telling us that the RAAF bigwigs are actually seriously worried that the F35 might turn out to be a massive mistake and the multi role Superhornet might have been a smarter decision.. The Canadians are in the same exact situation.. Australia have also purchased twelve Superhornets on top of the other 24 as the weapons jamming version signified as Growlers I believe. just wondering if any AFF members have experience or opinions on this matter as the deadline to retire the ageing fleet of 75 Legacy Hornets approaches. For those not really familiar with this , here's a vid from a while back on this topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1LNmfZL7Ec In this second video , same Aussie RAAF officer features but the details on the Superhornet are explained further. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f85q...Q#t=210.717572. What do you boys and girls think for our Asia Pacific region ? Cheers Rod.. Last edited by roddy1960; 24-09-2016 at 11:40 AM. |
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,193
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******Checking forum banner to see if I accidentally stumbled on to Fighter Jets Forum..........Nope i'm definitely on Ford Forums.
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#3 | ||
Moderator
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In my happy place
Posts: 5,432
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While fighter jets aren't my thing, one thing I like about the ford forum is we are diverse enough as people to talk about more than just fords.
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#5 | ||
I am Groot
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
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A couple of ongoing F-35 threads in the Bar............
![]() http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...highlight=F-35 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...&highlight=F35 |
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#6 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,530
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Quote:
Very rare the Australian Military get it wrong on military hardware. |
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#7 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 24
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#8 | ||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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G'day , Sorry about that all...I posted the thread in the wrong place ..my mistake..I realize now it should have been in the Bar instead..
... Anyway..I hope it's of interest to someone..Cheers Rod.. |
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,040
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Quote:
Its the F35 JSF ... Joint Strike Fighter. Joint as in meant to be used in conjunction with other aircraft. In this case, the F22. Yet the F22 is not legally able to be exported under US law, nor is it even in production. So how effective can a joint fighter that on its own 'cant turn, cant climb, cant run' be? |
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#11 | ||
I am Groot
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
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#12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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Quote:
There is also a design fault with them too. On a Sixty Minutes story a couple of years or so back it was revealed that way too many F22 pilots black out due to some issue with the plane and the guys in the interview too a huge risk speaking out..Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sWbVdEKaY0 . The F22 in fighter terms wasn't a real longevity one like say the F 15 or F 16 was/is .. or indeed the FA 18..The USAF don't even rate the FA 18 , only the US Navy/ Marines do.. Cheers Rod.. |
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#13 | ||||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,530
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Quote:
The fighter is meant to replace a wide range of existing fighter, strike & ground attack aircraft. Quote:
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#14 | |||
Former BTIKD
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Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
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__________________
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 559
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The Australian taxpayer is paying $770,000 just for each pilots' JSF helmet.
Each pilot gets one, they won't want to damage it - it's needed to fly the plane, Not sure if it's disinformation, but have heard only one place in the US can fit/match/tune the helmet to each pilot. This process is not measured in minutes, but days. Drop it, and allegedly you can't just borrow the next helmet on the shelf..... Be terrible for a billion trillion zillion dollar plane to not get used on the enemy because of such simple, but overlooked failure modes Sometimes added complexity doesn't help in getting the job done when needed |
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,040
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I've read several articles and they state quite clearly that the F35's shortcomings in close-combat were to be addressed by using them in conjunction with more capable air craft such as the F22. The fact that the F35 has received pretty damning criticism for its poor maneuverability seems to confirm this. Are we going to continue using our FA18s in this role?
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#17 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,530
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#18 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
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G'day all , I see that the USA 'claim' to have fixed the oxygen contamination issue now. If so that's good , if not really then that's a crock ..
The US Military now say the F35 is performing 'better than anticipated'..What sort of statement is that ? Too bad if secretly what was anticipated was lower than a snakes belly with the compromises a plane might need to make to be 'stealthy'. One redeeming feature of one variant of the F35 is the vertical capability for aircraft carrier ops. No advantage for Australia , until (if ever) we have a carrier or two and the infrastructure to run them. Military info is all smoke and mirrors so in essence they try and make you believe what they want you to believe. Our recently retired RAAF officer wasn't directly involved in Superhornets . He was involved mostly with teaching new inductions of pilots as I understand but he was often at training with the guys and girls that were based at fighter squadrons and they have a lot of faith in the Superhornet . According to him these people think that what Australia will end up doing is cut back a bit on the 60 or so F35's they planned on buying . Keep using 24 Superhornets) , a dozen EA 18 Growlers , and also keep flying for a bit longer than expected some of the classic Hornets . Maybe , just maybe it'd be smart to ask the people who fly and maintain the aircraft what they think . No-one knows better than them in reality. As in all jobs bosses could do well to consult those at the coal face as an important aid in decision making and can't hurt making better informed opinions overall..I'd like to think that the RAAF bigwigs and Defence Dept officialdom do. Who knows ? Cheers Rod.. Last edited by roddy1960; 25-09-2016 at 10:57 AM. |
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#19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,705
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Quote:
As for the F-35, time will tell. At this point no-one outside the inner circle knows how they will perform. Fighter jets these days is all about radar and being able to see the other guy first. The F-35 has a stonking radar that will leave the F/A 18 well behind.
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#20 | |||
Donating Member
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Location: Heading thru Hell (Corner)
Posts: 8,159
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Quote:
Keep in mind also that most modern 'dogfighting' is well beyond visual range (BVR). To make our advantage greater, we have the Wedgetail which will allow our integrated forces to 'see' (and engage) the enemy further than a fighter-borne radar can.
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Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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#21 | |||
Cynical Idealist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
New technology always has teething pains. If the advanced sensor and weapon systems work properly on the F-35, its perceived performance deficiencies are a non-issue.
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#22 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,215
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Quote:
![]() We are a laughing stock down here in Aus, our ADF are so politically correct in everything nowadays, that it's really disgusting not to mention what a sad joke it has become. Like we don't want to offend country's near to us, so they were happy we got rid of such an ability for our defence with the F111's, that's just one of the things you may not know, not to mention how much the Aussie Tax payer gives every year for that lot to service there own military, oh no nono it's not for their military, ![]() Russia leads the world by far in the best nowadays that they make the rest of the world look downright foolish and stupid beyond belief. Russia is not drunk on playing with it's self, like the USA and Australia with putting moronic Political Correctness in charge of everything. The Australian Government's and ADF leadership are a total disgrace and it's beyond belief the degenerates and morons they truly are. Just go and look at my good mate Major Bernard Gaynor's blog and find out what degenerate stupid spineless little filthy queer grubs they truly are, such lash out on our own best ADF people, only embrace other grubs who truly loth Australians. ![]() |
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#23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 618
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I really don't understand the logic of the RAAF high ups, whoever thought it was a good idea to buy so many F-35s for a country this large is nuts! Even more sending the first lot to Williamtown, if someone was to invade from the north they would have to refuel before they got there to be effective...
What they should of done is bought 60 F-35s and based them at Tindal, 36 Super Hornets and based them at Amberley, and then buy 24 F-15 Silent Eagles and base them at Williamtown. But that would make ******* sense.....
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#24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,215
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Quote:
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#25 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,794
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Isn't it also due to it being jointly developed jointly with the 11 partner nations?
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#26 | |||
Cynical Idealist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
The DoD is under the illusion that "joint" programs save money because they can use the same thing for different services, but the different services have different requirements and that always requires customization that adds cost. Joint programs are tremendously complex for that reason.
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#27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,216
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Showing my age now but I can recall the media controversy when Australia purchased the F-111s.
Many comments from fringe dwelling defense "experts" from warm seats. Nothing changes really.
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#28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,705
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Quote:
The entire southern and western sides of this country are completely unprotected. If MH-17 decided to attack Perth it would have got here faster from Kuala Lumpur than the Hornets could fly from Sydney or Tindal. A Hornet cannot fly 1km/h faster than the 707/A330 that has to refuel it. There is not even an air to air refueller in Western Australia that could fly out to meet them halfway.
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#29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 618
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Quote:
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#30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,705
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Quote:
As for stupid argument. How many fighters based around Perth? Or anywhere in WA?
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