extractors and their gains

**Polyal** · 25-07-2005, 03:19 PM

ok guys now before you shoot me just listen.

I have been talking to a guy that has been working at ford for ages and he says that the stock extractors are really not that much worse than say some PH4499 or PH4480's.

Now this blew me over as he is incredibly knowledgable with this sort of stuff. He said basically the main restriction is in the cat and the exhaust system itself.

Without going into great detail, there is apparently an ADR that says that once your car has covered more than 80,000kms that it does not have to meet emission laws. And unless you get pulled over and asked to get tested there is nothing the police can do.

With euro4 coming in this will change to 160,000km's; but for us its 80.

So does anyone have any dyno/track proof that some paccies or whatever will make a difference (before and after; just extractor change). I just want to see some data, not a bum-o-meter figure.

He also said that aftermarket extractors dont nesessarly increase power but they do change the range in which you get the peak.

What do you think?

Sagerian · 25-07-2005, 03:29 PM

There's lots of other things to discuss in your topic, but I'm gonna single out the comment about the cat. I always thought that it was the headers and exhaust restricting the stock system, not the cat. I always heard they were pretty beefy and not worth upgrading (I have a high-flow cat so I've never investigated)

Him saying the Ford cats are restrictive simply doesn't make sense to me.

EFFalcon · 25-07-2005, 03:40 PM

the stock manifold may not be 'restrictive'
but extractor design is 1/2 the gain with extractors.
the ability to design for midrange or top end power, etc.

**Polyal** · 25-07-2005, 03:45 PM

So there is a definate gain? Or a perceived gain/shift in power range?

He said that if you drill the cat (not completely empty so the cops can tell) then that alone with a good exhaust (cat back) will give good results.

Im not taking it as gospel, but I thought I would bring it up. Companies say that there is an increase in power but where is the proof is what Im getting at mainly.

Sagerian · 25-07-2005, 03:47 PM

Well, umm, yeah if you drill the cat you'll get improved performance, but you might as well run NOS... It's illegal.

**Polyal** · 25-07-2005, 04:14 PM

NOS is just a tad easier to detect than a drilled out cat. If you completely gut the cat then knock on it its very noticeable. But if you drill it then its still going to have some of the stuff left inside and not be as detectable.

Ok can we keep it on topic. Has anyone got any data?

FPVWEPN · 25-07-2005, 07:28 PM

What was his job at ford????? Just coz he works there doesn't mean he knows what hes on about. Gutted cat???? lol ull get about 1/2 a kilowatt if that and u cant really feel that at all can you?
Extractors are definately better than the stock manifold, more power and torque everywhere even with bolted up to the stock exaust system the extractors would outperform the stock exaust manifold. But would obviously work better with a full sysem

niko · 25-07-2005, 07:50 PM

4litres need to breath

going from full zorst to a stok zorst on same car, just felt gutless!

Psycho Chicken · 25-07-2005, 07:56 PM

Whoever said there is an ADR that allows cars that old to pass emission laws is having a lend of you. If it were true, why do people get pulled up in XC/XD/XE with no carbon canisters and why would it be illegal to hollow out your cat?

As for this guy, what's his job? Floor cleaner? Cos he knows SFA about exhaust systems. A stock intake manifold and a set of extractors have very little in common. A manifold needs the pressure from the exhaust stroke to move gases out. Extractors are made so they create low pressure areas to help draw exhaust gas out.

ea_boss_05 · 25-07-2005, 08:12 PM

hollowing out a cat just defeats the reason for having a cat and there is a $10,000 fine if you dont run a cat

one of my dad's m8's got an exhaust fitted and they gave him a stright pipe that he could replace the cat with, but they wouldn't fit it for him because it's a $10,000 fine so he had to do it at home.

niko · 25-07-2005, 08:19 PM

unless you got stupid power from your motor, a cat will not eat your power lol...

if you want no cat, do wat psycho said and get xe downwards or any car bfor 1987 and u can go stupid with exhaust as the laws wernt passed then

jonbays · 25-07-2005, 08:26 PM

The stock cast iron exhaust manifold would come any where near being called extractors. Its the manifold they designed for the canadian tractor engine in the XM 144 CI engine.

Pacies worked for me before and after dyno in my gallery is there for all to see.

This was before totally stock and after PH4480 extractors 2.5" system with a hi flow cat. The hi flow cat was a con there is no power gain here just easier for the exhaust shop to fabricate and fit.

hornet · 25-07-2005, 09:31 PM

I agree with all you guys, in that extractors will definatly outperform standard manifolds. I'm yet to get my Ph4480's..

But maybe he is talking about the factory extractors fitted to XR's compared to the likes of pacies and lukey, etc.

Psycho Chicken · 25-07-2005, 11:54 PM

XRs have the exact same manifold as any other Falcon.

**Polyal** · 26-07-2005, 09:01 AM

yeah guys settle. Obviously Im not going to name names but he has worked all over the place within the company.

I thought it was a bit weird too, so I just wanted to run it by; guess ill just have to prove him wrong.

Ill get more info on that ADR...he swears black and blue that its true. Hold tight.

Clarke AV · 26-07-2005, 02:47 PM

manifold [U][I] yes get one

Psycho Chicken · 26-07-2005, 06:22 PM

Tell him I want to be in the car when he gets pulled up with no cat, no carbon canister, etc, etc, then we'll see how true it is.

26-07-2005, 11:03 PM

All i did to mine is got some pipe welded into the center of it so whene they knock on it it's still got all the guts in there but it just runs straight through the pipe i had welded in there if your a good welder you can do it your self. I thought it was worth it. If you can get anothrt cat on the cheap i would do it to that incase you weren't happy with the outcome.

:

outback_ute · 26-07-2005, 11:19 PM

When the first XR6 came out the reason they gave for not going to extractors was there was only a 5kW increase in power - now this may be different with some of the newer designs on the market now but the fact remains that the ohc exhaust manifold is nowhere as bad as the old "log" style manifolds that used to be fitted to cars.

Dragon what you did is illegal too.