EF-EL XR8 Track Day Car

ProjectXR · 01-05-2007, 07:46 PM

Hey Guys,

I Posted this in the Falcons section but thaught i may get more help here.

Just wondering if i could get some advice. I'm looking at buying a EF-EL XR8 which would be a street/track day car(circut). It would be manual of course, and the car wouldn't stay standard for long.
One of my major concern's is brakes for the car! I definatly want to upgrade them but not sure what sort of brake package's there are for the EF-EL.
I was also wondering why the front and rear brakes are the same size? does this mean if i upgrade the front brakes i will be causing the car to be unbalanced during braking.
I was also looking for advice with suspension setup's, iv'e been speaking to a place that does a coilover setup for the front with adjustable ride hight, and lowered springs and shocks for the rear.
Would there be much difference between the live rear end on the EF-EL or is it worth going for a IRS setup, much like the AU but if any one eles has got any idea's that would be great.
Also any idea's for the engine/performance would be awesome as well.

This car would be seeing any where from 4-6 track days a year so i want to make sure i have the right go-fast bit for it. The last thing i want to do is spend alot more money swaping parts around because there not suited to the car and its use.

Thanks guys
James

EFFalcon · 01-05-2007, 08:35 PM

most of your brake upgrade options are pricey, so keep that in mind :P
brakes are my biggest complaint with my car

**Polyal** · 01-05-2007, 08:37 PM

Get a XR6 for a start, just depends on how big you want to go, $$ will be the only thing stopping you.

ProjectXR · 01-05-2007, 08:44 PM

Your right Polyal $$ is the big factor,
I wont be getting all the go fast bits all at once, this will be a project over a couple of years.
All the track events that i go to this year i will just be learning the tracks and the car. As all my experiance with driving so far has been with front wheel drives i'm going to have to take some time to learn the car.
I Would go a XR6 but i know i would just get a XR8 later anyway.
Do it right, do it once or not at all

bentles · 01-05-2007, 09:05 PM

keep in mind the 6 will flog the 8 around the track and if u spending money on engine mods the 6 will just keep leaving the 8 for dead the more u spend. until u get about 160-170rwkw

**Polyal** · 01-05-2007, 09:22 PM

Thats just it though. $$ for ya buck the 6 will kill the 8, you have to stroke or boost the 8 to get anything out of it.

That and the 6 will handle better, id put money on a e series XR6 whooping a XR8 all day long. A little less weight helps aswell.

Funny how things haven't changed much, you could say the same thing for the XR6T vs Boss now.

Dont get me wrong, the V8s are great, but if you are serious about racing, and have a budget then the 6 is the only way to go.

Plus you could get parts from that series that races commy V6's vs falcon I6's.

bentles · 01-05-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Thats just it though. $$ for ya buck the 6 will kill the 8, you have to stroke or boost the 8 to get anything out of it.

That and the 6 will handle better, id put money on a e series XR6 whooping a XR8 all day long. A little less weight helps aswell.

Funny how things haven't changed much, you could say the same thing for the XR6T vs Boss now.

Dont get me wrong, the V8s are great, but if you are serious about racing, and have a budget then the 6 is the only way to go.

Plus you could get parts from that series that races commy V6's vs falcon I6's.

if i was doing a falcon track day car it would have to be an eb/d xr6 with a t5 and a big ole cam, head work, t5 3.45 or 3.9lsd depending on circuit you use most often, exhaust and suspension work/camber kit and obviously weight reduction. the drivers seat in a eb/d xr would be very nice in the race car compared to an ef el xr as ive found the eb/d ones much 'huggier' but then again you will prob have a racing seat installed.

the eb/d is a bit lighter and if you compare eb/d xr6 vs el xr8 its a lot of weight we are talking here (200kg or so at a guess)

ProjectXR · 01-05-2007, 09:37 PM

In the case of $$$ ive bugeted for $15,000 after the price of the car for mods. Like i said this would be all done over a couple of years.
As for the info about the xr6 this is actually quite interesting. Is there really that much of a difference between the 8/6. I would of thaught the 8 would have been the better option. Learn something new i guess.

bentles · 01-05-2007, 09:52 PM

in almost every model sprint and gt aside im fairly sure the 6 is quicker. thats from eb right up to ba (using the turbo 6 not na 6 here tho)

edit: with 15k ontop of car purchase i say get a ed xr6, turbo it, t56 gearbox and suspension work will see a monster on the track! it will be lighter than a ef/l 6 and especially the 8, and it is alot cheaper too and not that much different in chassis balance id say, and can fit the same brakes im pretty sure theres a mob who do a real massive brake kit for about 3 grand. dont ask me what brand tho

ProjectXR · 01-05-2007, 09:54 PM

im not really keen on the whole turbo idea to be honest

Walkinshaw · 01-05-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentles

keep in mind the 6 will flog the 8 around the track and if u spending money on engine mods the 6 will just keep leaving the 8 for dead the more u spend. until u get about 160-170rwkw

Not quite.

$350 cam kit and $600 manifold $800 exhaust = 150rwkw @ 4000rpm from a wheezer auto. try that from a 4.0

bentles · 01-05-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Not quite.

$350 cam kit and $600 manifold $800 exhaust = 150rwkw @ 4000rpm from a wheezer auto. try that from a 4.0

$120 cam $10 shims $800 for exhaust (prob a better system than this 800$ system for the 8) machine the head yourself and try 150 rwkw and less weight....

it would cost around 3k or so to see 160rwkw if its all done by a pro from a 6 and its still gonna weigh less than the 8 which means its gonna stop harder, turn harder, have less body roll.

but keep in mind how muhc $ hes got to spend around 25-30k it seems for car + modifications.

EF302 · 01-05-2007, 10:26 PM

Windsors with alloy heads are apparently roughly 10kg lighter then the I6.

ProjectXR · 01-05-2007, 10:34 PM

Probably closer to $25,000 i would say.
I didn't think it was going to be such a hard decision, now i'm going to have to look at both a xr6 and the xr8.
At the end of the day i what i'm aiming for is a quick track car that i can use every day, as it's going to be my daily as well.

**Polyal** · 01-05-2007, 10:36 PM

Well theres another thing to think about...race cars + daily = trouble.

Get yourself a laser for a daily, and then buy a EA S pack for racing, strip it and just take it to JMM and get the works.

Aaron_EF8 · 01-05-2007, 10:41 PM

Remember a track car spends around 5-10% of a lap at full RPM, peak power doesn't mean much in a circuit car.

As Carrol Shelby says: "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races"

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentles

$120 cam $10 shims $800 for exhaust (prob a better system than this 800$ system for the 8) machine the head yourself and try 150 rwkw and less weight....

The Windsor with cast iron heads is about 15kg heavier than a 4.0 with its alloy head yes, but the Windsor also sits further back in the engine bay, giving better weight distribution. And machine the head yourself? If the thread starter has a mill at home, he wouldn't be making this thread.

I don't see why an XR would be a better start then a GL/GLi etc, as all of the XR stuff will be getting replaced, and after the first nose-front crash, who's going to want to spend stupid amounts of money on an XR front?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentles

it would cost around 3k or so to see 160rwkw if its all done by a pro from a 6 and its still gonna weigh less than the 8 which means its gonna stop harder, turn harder, have less body roll.

$3000 on a Windsor would see 180-200rwkw if done properly, and have a lot more torque than the I6 too.

Oh, and I think we all know what will sound better ;)

Aaron_EF8 · 01-05-2007, 10:51 PM

Bleh, double post

bentles · 01-05-2007, 11:00 PM

if you can stretch to 30k to spend and wanna keep it as a daily aswell too just get a ba mk2 xr6t/8 lol

EFFalcon · 02-05-2007, 08:01 AM

get a V8 for sure.
once you're talking over 150rwkw the 8 is an easy choice.
manifold and heads are the main pricey bits, but with them no n/a 6 will touch you.

look at the times mildly worked AU XR8's run, seen many n/a 6's match it?

eed-250 · 02-05-2007, 08:16 AM

If you have a budget for of 15-25k why dont u just buy a used Saloon Car? Would be miles infront in terms of money and with the left over money you could actually RACE It.. **** driving around the track by yourself that gets boring.

RACE CAR FOR DAILY IS BIG NO NO.
buy a bunky man dont be a tool.

Ringo · 02-05-2007, 08:38 AM

Oh yeah....daily driver and weekend warrior don't mix. Seperate the two so at least you can go to work without having to work to 2 on a Monday morning fixing something you broke on Sunday afternoon (assuming you have the parts you need)

Get yourself a decent car trailer and an E-gas wagon (daily driver) and there you have your transporter!

If you want a track car get something someone else has built - better value for money, spend more time driving then building, can sell it later.

On the other hand with $15000 you may be able to get yourself an early BA Turbo...particularly the longer you wait.

Aeron got himself a VX Gen III for track days....look up his thread.

PS brake upgrades? First step would be decent racing pads and slotted and or cross drilled discs with some custom air ducting to shed heat. After that Hoppers Stoppers might have an upgrade kit to suit. Google them - their website is excellent.

**Polyal** · 02-05-2007, 08:58 AM

And when you say race, what do you mean exactly?

GRNKPR · 02-05-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Projekt`[J]

In the case of $$$ ive bugeted for $15,000 after the price of the car for mods. Like i said this would be all done over a couple of years.
As for the info about the xr6 this is actually quite interesting. Is there really that much of a difference between the 8/6. I would of thaught the 8 would have been the better option. Learn something new i guess.

you might want to look at an old saloon car ea/b 6cyl good brakes rollcage ready to go and being snapped up fpr between $10 000 and $15 000 all set up and ready to go and dont think they arnt to quick ask a few forum members and i drove one in a 6 hour relay last year at Philip island ,what they dont have in powerr they make in the brake department

xdc351 · 02-05-2007, 09:35 AM

Unless you absolutely have to have a Ford, go get your cams licences and import a car from japan for race use only.

Why anyone would spend the tens of thousands of dollars required to get an aussie sedan up to spec for track sprints when there are some absolute race animals going for next to nothing in japan is beyond me (though I stress this is clearly not the case for people actually trying to race in a particular bracket).

Either that or get involved in a particular class of racing and go for it. There are plenty of options available for low budget racing...

ProjectXR · 02-05-2007, 06:04 PM

I think a few people may be getting carried away here.
I would buy a saloon car but because i would only be seeing the track a few times a year it seems barely worth it.
And i'm not looking at entering into any classes at the moment. I'm sure somewhere down the track that would be a posiblity, I have my cams licence for club day sprints at the moment, thats all i want to do.
As for not mixing the two, Every club event i have attended so far there a quite a few people that use there daily as their track car and they don't seem to have too much of a drama doing that.

Quote:

Polyal And when you say race, what do you mean exactly?

I never said race, i said track days ie. club sprints

FPV8U · 02-05-2007, 06:09 PM

EF XR8 with the rest of the $$$ spent on Cam, Exhaust, Intake, Clutch, Brakes & Suspention.

malta123 · 02-05-2007, 06:22 PM

hoppers stoppers have a kit as do race brakes for the falcon not sure on price standard brakes wont last more then 3-4 laps before there gone iv been told using race brake fluid helps as you will boil the standard stuff you'll get alot out of a set of groved slicks over under stear is a bich in the ford as iv found indebendent rear would make masive inprovments keep engine mods to bolt ons in my opinion to make repair costs less. spend your money on suspention thats were youll get biggest inprovment you dont need a thousand horse powere on a track

ProjectXR · 02-05-2007, 06:24 PM

thank you malta123, very helpfull post.

EFFalcon · 02-05-2007, 07:12 PM

i've done a good 9 laps at winton on stock brakes, there was absolutely nothign special about any of the components, they still felt fairly confident after 3 sessions @ 9 laps each.plenty of improvement to be had though!

xdc351 · 02-05-2007, 07:18 PM

OK, well if your just after a quick streeter that will handle the occasional track day I'd go straight for an ED sprint. Lighter, with a much more powerful engine and with just bolt on mods they absolutely fly.

My mate had an EF II XR8 and while it was a damn nice car it would have needed a stack of work to even hold a candle to a sprint.